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Premium Accounts vs Free Accounts

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MWTaylor, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Korag

    Korag Forest Golem
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    Ya just giving out some ideas that can be tweaked and done whatever with. I am the guy that always subs to games so none of this really matters to me personally but I was attempting to appease the masses with simple ideas
     
  2. BubbleTea

    BubbleTea Goblin Scout

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    Freemium needs to make coming back to the game as painless as possible. With a bank restriction, the only people who are coming back to try the game after a sub has lapsed are people who will subscribe. That discards a bunch of players who would come back to check out the changes and dick around before committing to a subscription. I've seen ESO cited and it's a very poor comparison because the inventory system is not front-and-center like it is in this game, particularly because Darkfall is full loot. Players can stick their heads into their banks dozens of times during a session - it's part of the fundamental gameplay. The only way I can see something like that working is if a new 200-500 item free-to-play bank tab is added to keep the amount of shit "stuck" (even if it can technically be removed) in the bank low and to establish the proper expectations. I don't think it is ideal though.

    UO opened up a free to play option recently and from what I've heard (not much) their bank restrictions have been a mess. It's probably worth some research.

    Please spend some of that dono money on a consultant with f2p experience.
     
    #82 BubbleTea, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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  3. Kantor

    Kantor Varangian Warthane
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    Not sure if it was mentioned already but f2p shouldn’t be able to hit city mines and other nodes. That alone will probably get a lot of people to sub. If not they can always hit golems.
     
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  4. nightblighter

    nightblighter Undead Dwarf
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    For F2P I am concerned with 2 things: avoiding pay 2 win accusations as much as possible, and enabling maximum content creation.

    For avoiding pay 2 win, don't put any restrictions on max stats or skills or gear or anything combat related. Don't restrict use of mounts or boats or cannons or anything like that. Slow gains is fine, lower stat caps are not.

    When I say enabling maximum content creation, I am talking about clans and politics and sieges and markets. These are systems for which the utility and fun scale disproportionately with population growth. Tax free players a little more to use the market, but don't restrict them to only buy orders or sell orders or something like that. Every market user benefits when more people use the market.

    Don't restrict free players from making a clan. The odds that large numbers of people will subscribe to start a clan for a game they aren't already invested in is low; The payoff for one charismatic free player starting a clan and changing the political landscape is potentially unbounded. This game lives or dies on the strength of clans and social ties. The more the merrier.

    Free players should count for siege totals, if you can allow this without it being abused. F2P restrictions should be put on the free player, not on the people he befriends in game. If someone can't siege a hamlet because all their clan members are free players, we are all worse off. More people in politics stirs up drama and activity and is good for the game overall.
     
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  5. Korag

    Korag Forest Golem
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    Increased tax for using the market if your not subbed, Limited number of transactions and listings if you are not subbed.
     
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  6. kiwiitis

    kiwiitis Goblin Warrior
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    Have to strongly disagree with increasing market tax for non subbed.The more players using market the better otherwise they most likely will bypass the market.
     
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  7. Korag

    Korag Forest Golem
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    unlikely as buying any other way is unrealistic has always been a huge pain without a market.
    I am not talking a huge amount but enough that it would be a piece that would encourage having a sub
     
  8. nightblighter

    nightblighter Undead Dwarf
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  9. Rimamok

    Rimamok Air Elemental
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    Any cap to skills/spells on Freemium is a huge mistake IMO. Even the slightest whiff of Pay2Win will lose you TONS of players.
     
  10. Animal

    Animal Obsidian Golem
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    There is a time to convenience ratio at play here.

    They're the kind of things that benefit F2P games the most.

    Do you want something in-game? Pay for it with money or time.
    This already exists through game-time tokens, race-change tokens, item skins, and blessed tools.


    We don't see anyone complaining how it currently works because the game is full-loot and the advantage you gain from selling items bought from the item shop is a time-advantage. Every item that someone farmed and crafted is just as effective as the weapon someone bought off the market with gold made from selling item shop items.

    As long as the main thing that determines the outcome of a fight is gear and player skill, then you can choose to increase the time required to complete things in-game as an unsubbed account at any rate you choose.

    If anything, I'd say remove their ability to purchase from the market ENTIRELY and only allow them to post items on it. We need to force them to realize there is a drastic convenience in having a subbed account if they wish to actively trade. It doesn't prevent them from shouting in Agon chat that they're selling "insert item here" for "insert price here" at "insert location here." We traded this way for years before RoA implemented markets. It's a convenience that should be limited to subbed accounts.

    The foundation of every "moral" F2P game is selling convenience to the players.
     
    #90 Animal, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  11. Korag

    Korag Forest Golem
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    Mortal is the only one that might be close to what darkfall is.
    Eve is an entirely different monster and Albion is also much different in other ways
    You don't have to aim in those 2 hardly at all. Not sure about eve and full loot but fairly sure you can have insurance to protect a lot of that.
    If darkfall had more of the theme park stuff that Albion had then they could maybe do it different.
    ESO does bank restrictions, Not 100% about SWTOR but it has a lot of restrictions to characters also allowing multiple.

    I am not set on the idea of the market tax or anything just tossing out ideas so they can go the freemium model as quickly as possible while still being able to keep the doors open
     
  12. Bartlebe

    Bartlebe Chosen of Khamset
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    This kind of thing has worked well in Eve though. Certain skills cannot be accessed by F2P people. Certain content as well. In Albion, people with premium train skills, get more drops and harvest resources faster. I don't think something like this would be unreasonable in Darkfall. Certain content you can't access for free. Certain thing are going to be slower.
     
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  13. Korag

    Korag Forest Golem
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    Well I am not sure if anything in the expansion could be behind a paywall as far as content. But for the future you could release content that is free for subs but free accounts would either have to sub or purchase the new content to gain access whatever it might be, (outside of what sells in the store cant have closed doors for the store :))
     
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  14. Rimamok

    Rimamok Air Elemental
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    I’m actually fine with limiting certain CONTENT to Prremium. Like, Freemium pilot ships at half speed.

    The problem with capping stats/skills is that it penalizes CORE content. E.g. basic combat strength. Every Freemium who ever loses a fight will be asking himself,Did I lose due to lower stats? And many of them will just quit if they’re at that disadvantage.

    Whereas in the example I gave above of Reduced Content, while the Freemium could not pilot the ship effectively, they could tag along and support their Captain in combat at full effectiveness. Those players would STAY, which is the key.
     
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  15. nightblighter

    nightblighter Undead Dwarf
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    I've seen another suggestion similar to this, which is to prevent free players from manning cannons so that a single person can't abuse free alts to farm the kraken. Between that suggestion and yours, ship content would be 100% killed off.

    It is a mistake to see ship combat as separate from CORE content. Ship combat is combat and I see limiting it as pay 2 win. You may not be jazzed about ship stuff, but some people who play this game think it is the best part. Sea content has always been neglected in Darkfall, but yet still the array of ships makes it one of the most interesting ship games that isn't pure ships like Sea of Thieves.

    What happens when someone jumps on your ship and kills your captain. How will you get away at half speed? And manning cannons is one of the activities a pure new player can do immediately and be about as good at it as anyone else. These solutions are worse than what they solve.

    Ship Combat = Combat.
     
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  16. Nat

    Nat Shadow Knight
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    Crazy thought... premium accounts can make two characters.
     
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  17. nightblighter

    nightblighter Undead Dwarf
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    Here is a short reddit thread on why someone likes daily login bonuses in ESO:

     
  18. Bartlebe

    Bartlebe Chosen of Khamset
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    Everything listed here is like the opposite of Darkfall though. Never new content coming out, not super populated, community is mean as snakes and hostile. Login in bonuses are a great idea though. Just saying...
     
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  19. Korag

    Korag Forest Golem
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    This would be really cool actually
     
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  20. Madmatt

    Madmatt Deadeye
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    So originally, I was on my way to project suggestions to shamelessly beg and grovel in an attemp to convince you guys to add the rare ore option back to nodes. I have lost all desire to farm metal and wont even hit nodes in a camp im farming during the down time. There is no chance for a surprise so im really not drawn to the nodes like before. I'd be happy if it was only .01% of a chance, at least something to once again gain a tiny bit of excitement from mining.

    So before I posted I actually thought it might be a nice premium incentive. Freemium gets ore only, Premium has a small chance to score rare ore again. I personally think this could be a great hook to get freemiums to buy in. As much as I would like a chance for any ore I'd actually suggest region locking it like you did with the dynamic rare ore nodes.

    Even if you decided not to add it as a premium option, Please seriously consider re-adding it regardless. I track ore on the market and buy it when I can but realisticly it is a market of pure demand with VERY little, to sometimes no supply. Almost everyone I've talked to wants this back and if you polled I'd be willing to bet 70-90% vote YES, if not more. Anyways, thanks for considering this.