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PvP Changes - Zones, Stances, Looting

Discussion in 'Akathar Update' started by Agon Herald, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. Agon Herald

    Agon Herald Goblin Warrior
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    This thread focuses on the systems that will change how PvP works in Rise of Agon. The aim of the thread is to provide comprehensive information so that discussion can move ahead.

    Some of the information in this OP may be inaccurate, we will correct it with notes where necessary

    Let's go over the overview of what will change in summary

    Capital Area (Blue Zone) - Human lands will now be place where peaceful blue players will not drop loot.
    Mainland, excluding the middle "Pall of Oncylus" area (Yellow Zone) -
    This area covering the racial territories will be a PvP area with partial loot.
    Lawless (Red Zones) -
    Oceans, Islands and the Pall of Oncylus remain lawless. Red zones remain the same as before.

    PvP Stances are necessary for different systems to work together correctly

    Peaceful - Blue players with the peaceful stance will not be damaged or affected by physics from other players if within Capital area.
    Neutral - Players with this stance can engage in combat with other players that have Neutral or Hostile stance. This stance is important for many mechanics such as siege zones(more on that later). Dying in this stance has different loot rules than peaceful and hostile.
    Hostile - The stance makes the player free game and allow them to attack other players freely except for Peaceful Blue players in the capital area. Players with hostile stance will drop all loot no matter where they are, and are attack-able by anyone even in the capital area (where they cannot attack peaceful blues). To remove hostile stance a player must pray at a church with enough gold.

    Full Loot, Partial Loot, No Loot
    No Loot
    is reserved for peaceful blue players in the capital area
    Partial Loot means player will keep their paperdoll and drop their inventory (we want players to keep the things that would be needed to fight but drop everything else that they have which isn't for fighting)
    At the moment partial loot will be used for Blues and Neutral players in the Blue and Yellow Mainland zones.
    Full Loot same as before, lawless red zones
    (will need to confirm mechanics for clan wars and sieges)

    Note (edit): stances are not only set by the player, in certain conditions a player will be flagged into a PvP stance such as entering a siege zone.

    Stance Switching mechanics, Combat Timers
    Some concerns were raised about switching stances during combat, this was considered but it needs to be confirmed to give an accurate answer. The short version is that we considered how long the combat timer should be to prevent abuse, the principle is that if the combat timer is long enough then it is reasonable as the player would effectively have escaped. The combat timer does not allow a player to switch stances, so it was necessary for us to see how players would play to judge if it was working correctly or needs adjustment.

    Siege Interactions
    Under these new rules, when a siege is live the area will flag all players within 1.5km (?) as Neutral. Which will allow the defenders and attackers to fight anyone in the area without alignment penalties.

    This thread is specifically for PvP related changes, other threads will be setup for the other parts of the patch.
    Use this thread to leave feedback or discuss the PvP related changes.
     
    #1 Agon Herald, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  2. The Red King

    The Red King Obsidian Golem
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  3. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Seems like what you laid out.

    The only problem I can see is noobs complaining they were caught in a siege zone around a blue or yellow area and dying. Visual indicators, a big "WARNING YOU ARE IN A SIEGE ZONE" on the screen when you login to a siege area (unfortunate) or when you enter a siege area is definitely going to be necessary.

    How will villages work? Creating lower tier villages could be a thing? (Yellow zone) as long as the loot is scaled accordingly. Shit you can even have blue tier villages where peacful players can team up to fight monsters attacking a village when it goes live?

    But yea, villages, and sieges, and loot distribution will be the big things here.
     
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    #3 Sero, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  4. Ryco Stormeye

    Ryco Stormeye Crypt Guard

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    With the partial loot system you said they keep every thing on the paperdoll. Currently you can slot a mount and a lootbag on the paperdoll in addition to armour/jewllery but not weapons. Will you be able to keep your mount (for fightning?) and lootbag and how will you prevent weapons dropping?
     
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  5. BeatIt

    BeatIt Eodrin
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    so neutral in red zone dont loss the gear they wear?????
     
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  6. Agon Herald

    Agon Herald Goblin Warrior
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    @Sero Most of the existing systems that interact with these changes will continue to work as before (ie Villages should turn the VCP area into PvP, forcing PvP Neutral). We tried to keep any changes that needed to happen to existing systems minimal while we're figuring out what works and what needs adjustments. That is a pretty cool idea about VCPs, maybe a dev will be able to engage that idea

    So with partial loot gold would drop on takedown no matter what, the lootbag is also in the same logic. The technicalities of how the game decides something is kept would need to be answered by a dev but it would seem that the paperdoll weapons change we're working on would address one part, leaving a question about how reagents food etc is kept.

    If you're in lawless red zone you should drop all your loot no matter what stance or alignment you have. Although this question raises some thoughts for how PvP stances interact with player holdings in lawless areas - would a player in their own holding drop loot if they are set to neutral or peaceful but their holding is in Lawless (need confirmation), thank you for bringing that up
     
  7. BeatIt

    BeatIt Eodrin
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    if player dont drop loot inside holding.... why raid city... why play the game even...

    u wanna help new players i get it, make every new players spawn in monkfield, make all human land a safezone (bluezone)and make a BETTER tutorial for new players.

    ur stance are another waste of time.
     
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  8. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    they trying to expand for the plebs that think full loot is too hardcore for them and give noobs/casuals some leeway to keep em logging in. How it works out will remain to be seen but im under the theory that it will always take a SPECIFIC type of person to be able to play Darkfall.

    @Agon Herald

    For more clarification on the alignment system entanglement. How exactly does one Lose/Gain alignment. Will a lawless zone still retain alignment hits for blue on blue crime (just with the stricter loot policy), 2 neutrals fighting each other = what exactly? Or is the only way to take an alignment hit to kill a blue in a blue zone?
     
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  9. Ryco Stormeye

    Ryco Stormeye Crypt Guard

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    It sounds from the orginal post that alignment is a thing of the past and stances will control everything?
     
  10. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    I guess that would make sense since they want to pave way for factions anyways....
     
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  11. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Gaining alignment works just like before with one exception. If you are flagged hostile you do not gain alignment over time. You must be in neutral or peaceful stance to gain alignment.

    The only way to lose alignment is if you attack/kill a peaceful player in lawful areas, this would include the capital area since it is in fact lawful however the peaceful players are "safe" in this area from pvp. This means the only way to lose alignment is to purposefully switch to hostile stance just so you can attack and kill peaceful players.

    Lawless zones stay exactly as they always have been. Everyone can attack anyone without penalties since everyone automatically goes rouge when entering a lawless area.

    Hostile stance is the same as voluntarily going rogue/red as well. You will be hit by guard towers.
    --- Post updated ---
    Alignment will continue to be a part of the game as long as friendly fire is possible. The moment there is no longer alignment then people will have no reason not to enter hostile and kill everyone they see regardless of the team they're on.

    What we are trying with this, however, is to make it possible to pvp without penalty using the neutral stance.
     
  12. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Does the yellow zone count as "lawful?"

    Seems to me it'd be pretty hard to attack and kill a blue player with this:

    Peaceful
    - Blue players with the peaceful stance will not be damaged or affected by physics from other players if within Capital area.​
     
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  13. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    Yes it counts as lawful. Blue players with their flag set to peaceful can be attacked but you will lose alignment.
     
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  14. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    I should have said Yellow to be more specific. Lawful is still the same areas it has always been and lawless is still the same areas it has always been (actually the center lawless area is slightly larger than it use to be). But Capital is a section of lawful with higher tier of safety.

    That's the reason I said, "this would include the capital area since it is in fact lawful however the peaceful players are "safe" in this area from pvp." to clarify that while capital is still technically considered a lawful area, peaceful players are safe there.

    So going by colors "Blue" is the capital area where peaceful players cannot be attcked, Yellow is the remaining areas of lawful where anyone can be attacked, but your stance determines who you can hit. Red is lawless where everyone is rogue anyway.
    --- Post updated ---
    I'll put a tab in the map with some of these details.
     
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  15. Ryco Stormeye

    Ryco Stormeye Crypt Guard

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    OK So what I have got so far from all this. Please comment if any is incorrect

    In Capital Area

    A Peacefull Player cannot attack a Peacefull Player
    A Peacefull Player (no loot) can attack a Netural Player (partial loot)
    A Peacefull Player (no loot) can attack a Hostile Player (full loot)
    A Neutral player cannot attack a Peacefull Player
    A Neutral player (partial loot) can attack a Netural Player (partial loot)
    A Neutral player (partial loot) can attack a Hostile Player (full loot)
    A Hostile Player cannot attack a Peacefull Player
    A Hostile Player (full loot) can attack a Netural Player (partial loot)
    A Hostile Player (full loot) can attack a Hostile Player (full loot)

    In Mainland

    All players can attack all players
    Peacefull and Netural players will drop partial loot
    Hostile Players will drop Full Loot

    On Islands and Center

    All players can attack all players
    All players will drop full loot

    I have not got the full alignment consquences of each action yet.
     
  16. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Overthinking it I believe. I'll give a shot at explaining it piece by piece to see if that helps.

    Current Hit Protection System
    We implemented hit protection as a way to prevent you from accidentally hitting blue players since hitting blues causes you to go rouge, which can get you freely killed, and killing blues makes you lose alignment. There are plenty of players that never want to go red and therefore keep their hit protection always turned on so they never have to worry about hitting them or accidentally killing them. If that blue player happens to attack they are turning themselves rouge which makes it so you can defend yourself anyway.

    Introducing PVP Stances
    The new pvp stances are not really different than the original hit protection system. In fact all it really does is add another layer in the middle for more options.

    hostile player.png

    Hostile Stance
    : this is the equivalent to having your hit protection turned off. You are able to hit anyone, and subject to any penalties that may entail. (notice the skull icon and gray name. The hostile stance turns you rouge.)

    peaceful player.png

    Peaceful Stance: This is the equivalent to having your hit protection turned on. You are able to hit reds and rogues, but you cannot hit any other blue players.(notice there is no icon)

    and now:

    neutral player.png

    Neutral Stance: This is a combination of the two. You have a form of hit protection that prevents you from hitting peaceful blue players so you cannot lose alignment and not turn rogue, however you are voluntarily turning on PVP so you can freely hit, and be hit by, other players of the same neutral stance. (notice the blue shield)

    Of course anyone can hit red and rouge players anytime, anywhere.

    Alignment loss:
    The only way to lose alignment is if you incapacitate or kill a blue player that is not willing to pvp. Meaning, only if you kill a blue player that is in the peaceful stance.

    The other change is the new region split up. We still have the same lawless areas and same lawful areas as before. However we have added a third area called the capital area around human lands. The capital area is an increased level of "lawfulness" if you will.

    color map.png

    The red area is the lawless areas. Yellow is the normal lawful, and blue is the new capital area which currently includes all npc cities. Along with this split up we've created some new rules for the yellow and blue areas.

    Yellow Area:
    • Blue players will drop their backpacks and keep their paperdoll.
    • Red and rouge players will drop everything.

    Blue Area:
    • Blue players that are flagged peaceful will drop nothing
    • everyone else same as yellow area.
    Red Area:
    Nothing has changed, everyone drops everything.
     
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  17. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Duuno how accurate that map is but midmap laweless should extend a little more just past elish and just before aradoth walls.

    Theres a lot of prime area there.
     
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  18. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    I just scribbled a rough guestimation on the map for the forum post.
     
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  19. BeatIt

    BeatIt Eodrin
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    ok i dig that, thats way more clear

    just make sure all Q4-5 and champions should all be in red zone, thats end game stuff
     
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  20. Fenrir Frauki

    Fenrir Frauki Windlord
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    This just looks like another disaster waiting to happen, player cities are in they Yellow everyone will just be blue....and the only way to be red is kill people who don't drop their loot? Sounds terrible
     
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