Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Reducing Travel Times and Tedium

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by MWTaylor, Jul 29, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Donaddor Lightbringer

    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    230
    I don't like bad changes and I explained why not. You're the kind of person that goes, "ooh I liek that change, its good for me cuz I spend alot of time on the ground and can't get rezzed in combat so if the zerg can prevent the gank, I should go back to zerging!" and not see the whole picture on how bad it'd be for the game, especially for the better group that got you down but can't just gank... Maybe one day you'll be winning an out numbered fight and the zerg will keep getting up not because you are "lazy", but because you can't get a gank off on someone you just beat down. It does not justify combat auto rez for the person that lost a fight and got down. If you cannot get the rez, you do not get rezzed. You don't deserve it... The people that got u down and prevented rez deserves it.

    And ahead of time for mods, this post isn't toxic and non-constructive. Guy says lets implement a bad idea, best constructive thing you can do it explain why not and I did so, so stop deleting my post. I even left a suggestion about nexus.. was that toxic too? non-constructive?
     
    #121 Donaddor Lightbringer, Jul 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
    Shadow-Demon and MikeJT like this.
  2. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
    Wealthy Affluent Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Messages:
    4,913
    Likes Received:
    3,410
    just hurry, bois
     
    Fengor likes this.
  3. dragula

    dragula Gravelord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    216
    The "character" grind is not the real issue imo. It's the grind for gear that is competitive with the "elite". The rare ores, rare enchanting mats for initial crafts (staff crafting, etc), enchanting mats, constant need for iron ore, etc,etc,etc. The time it takes put a good gear bag together compared to how fast/easy it can disappear for the average player, leads to pvp viability becoming a chore. When you add in the character grind on top of that, it's just compounded. Losing a competitive gear set should sting only a little, it shouldn't be "omg that's my last gear set and i need to take a break before I start grinding gear again."
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Donaddor Lightbringer likes this.
  4. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    5,661
    Likes Received:
    7,586

    I think a big mistake a lot of people do is they farm for ONE gearbag instead of just wearing average gear until they can stock up enough to afford to lose a couple nice bags. I always try to stock up on enough stuff so I can wear a nice bag and stil have backup gear. Takes some patience and time but it saves worry later.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  5. Green Chili

    Green Chili Spellgazer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    460
    Pretty much this.

    We need to have the middle class (the PvE'ers, crafters, and gatherers) with enough minimum R50 gear that they can afford to lose it, which means they will be more likely to use it, even if pvp isn't really their jam, and so they will be willing to sell their extras.

    This should be the gear that supplies the big clans, elites/more experienced players who can really farm the big gold mobs and and the bangers, that can mostly "hold their own" regardless of what they are doing.

    Both groups should need each other, one has most of the everyday gear and enchant mats, the other, most of the gold to buy what they need for everyday gear . Also, make rare weapons and armor actually rare AND more evenly distibuted among all players. Let fights be mostly determined by who plays better.
     
  6. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    5,661
    Likes Received:
    7,586
    game is like this already, at least from the top looking down.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  7. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
    Supporter Lifetime

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    618
    I disagree the character grind is not an issue.

    When everyone was on an equal footing, and everyone was off minding their own business leveling their own toons, the grind was 'fine'.

    But for anyone who didn't significantly max their toons on launch the grind is still horrendous. It takes a long time to grind anything out. Taking a massive bunch of reagents to a spawn to dump it on mobs is probably the fastest way to level, but also the most expensive when some random guy, or group of guys, jumps you.

    Low end mobs take too long to respawn/don't take enough hits, and high end mobs are where you're most likely to get ganked. So you're generally stuck in this odd middle ground where your leveling rate is alright, but you still don't want to take out too many reagents unless you get jumped and lose it all, so you're back and forth between the mobs and the bank constantly.

    If the pop was greater we'd soon find most people rolling with R40's, under the current drop rates. R50's would be a lot rarer and R60's would be seen at sieges. We'd rarely see people rolling around for daily PvP with Q4 keened R60's like we currently see.

    The game can only product X amount of Theyril/Leenspar/Veilron/Rakta/etc per day. If every golem spawn, node, and city mine was constantly farmed 24/7 there's a physical limit to how much can be pulled out of the game world and converted into high end gear.

    If you divide that high end gear among 500 players, then yeah you will quickly see people rolling with Q4 keened R60's on a daily basis. But if you had to divide that gear among 2000 players, not so much. 10,000 players? Rarely if at all.

    That dude with the R60 isn't a major factor if he's getting zerged down by 20 guys, but right now the game pop isn't great enough to produce numerous large clans.

    In short:
    1. Low pop means people rolling with insane gear
    2. Everyone now demands a higher level of gear because that other guy has epic gear
    3. Drive for better gear drives up prices, makes higher end gear harder to get
    4. People get turned off game because gear grind is too much.
    5. Reduced pop means more people rolling with insane gear.
    6. Return to 1. Repeat until game dead or devs intervene.
    The solution?

    Either:
    • Put the brakes on high end gear. Like seriously slam down the drop rates of EVERYTHING that's needed to produce high end gear. Drive people back to using R40's. Eventually all the R60's/R50's in the economy will break, get lost, etc
    • Open the flood gates for people to get access to high end gear very easily.
    Personally I think the first solution is the better solution, especially for new players entering the game. If they're still rolling with R10's/R20's when they meet their first vet toon carrying a Q4 keen R60, that's not gonna end well and they're going to feel useless.

    TL;DR: Rare gear should be rare.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    dragula likes this.
  8. Chuck Zitto

    Chuck Zitto Gravelord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    160
    Sounds good just wish this stuff was in at the start. Trying to convince other people to come back to darkfall is getting old. People wise up after the third or fourth time.
     
    Brown Dorf, Fengor and RootedOak like this.
  9. Green Chili

    Green Chili Spellgazer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    460
    Create a new toon, spend a day or two bouncing from blue NPC cities and talk to people. See how many of them are still struggling to keep their med points flowing while trying to also scribe/level magic.

    You don't really believe that the larger more experienced "vet" clans are buying their rare ores and Q3/4 enchanting mats from unclanned/3-4 man clans of actual new players and causuals.....do you?

    Newer players are still rocking r30s in these places. It is what they can afford or they don't know better and if they are unclanned, it also means they likely are trying to level some crafting as well to have some decent gear. Not only that, many of them are reluctant to do dungeons because it is too easy for new/inexperienced, unclanned players make it out alive. Well, with the recent drop in activity and as time goes on some of these things are changing. I think at this stage many of these players feel the world is safer overall because of the drop in activity.

    But to say that new players, unclanned (solo) players and new small clans have the majority of the r50 and up gear and are selling it to clans that have played DF since 2009...come on.
     
    MikeJT likes this.
  10. kilrath81

    kilrath81 Black Knight
    Lifetime Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    721
    i'd be good with that. I lose maybe a gear bag a week, if that. So its not for my safety lol. I also play with 2 other people. so apparently 3 is a zerg.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Slave Labor likes this.
  11. Shadow-Demon

    Shadow-Demon Skeleton Archer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    139
    Ideas like this are the reason I wish there was a dislike button on the forums. Please just go play WoW or something sounds more your style.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  12. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    5,661
    Likes Received:
    7,586
    I've bought a lot of rare ores and enchanting mats off newer/small clan players actually, probably the majority of them that i've bought.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Fengor likes this.
  13. Green Chili

    Green Chili Spellgazer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    460
    Well then, problem averted. :smirk:
     
  14. kilrath81

    kilrath81 Black Knight
    Lifetime Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    721
    Everyone is going to other games. So either shit changes or you can go play another game when the lights go out. What kind of idiot tells people to go play other games with the pop as low as it seems to be? SOMETIMES I wonder how people survive a day in the real world.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Korag likes this.
  15. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
    Wealthy Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    761
    I vote you guys put wilderness portal chambers in the game that use a portal shard to teleport you to a selected village.

    Also lock hit protection when near a village that isn't contested. :yum:
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  16. YaBootyIsFruity

    YaBootyIsFruity Gravelord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    155
    Make a hub in centre map with a portal to the subcontinents. Creates a hotspot and ideally new players have no business being on subcontinents. The capital linking portals are also a great idea. This is what I envisioned initially when the portals where announced and I think keeping it simple is key. I think putting in multiple hubs is a mistake at this stage in the game considering the population. More hubs can always be added if need be but I would starts with one central hub and later make adjustments. If you see a benefit in adding a resource sink make the red portal network ( centre hub and subcontinents ) cost gold or pshards to use.
     
    Grimtide likes this.
  17. Shadow-Demon

    Shadow-Demon Skeleton Archer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    139
    What kind of idiot thinks auto revive is gonna save a dead game? lmfao like really? You think a mechanic to promote zerging even more will bring pop back like wtf. How do you even get to the point where your like yea games dead auto revive will make everyone come back. I actually played DFUW when this mechanic was in and it was one of the most retarded things I have ever seen. Just because a fight gets drawn out doesn't mean anyone should get a free revive. You're telling me that after i work my ass of killing people usually outnumbered that after I down a few and keep fighting and stringing them out to kill them all that the first few should be auto reviving and coming back into a fight I already took them out of to help there buddy's zerg? Please explain to me in detail how the fuck this will save the game. Did they earn the free revive? Fuck no I just killed there ass if I can stop them from reviving there friends then they DESERVE to stay on the ground because I put in that work to put them there and they didn't work for shit to get a revive that's why they're on the ground in the first place. This is a hardcore game at least its supposed to be but ideas like this are just gonna make the game pure shit even more so then now. I said go play a different game because your ideas are cancer for this game they seem like something more for WoW or some shit.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  18. Shivs

    Shivs Crypt Guard

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    117
    Because there a two completely separate games in DF.

    Game 1 PVE, mostly solo as medium spawns don't support even duo, the skills to kill mob efficiently, use a bolt that does the most damage, use transfers and heal. Learn to sidestep and duck in and out of terrain, If your lucky learn to parry and bunnyhop if you get overconfident and take too much damage.

    Use game 1 to build a bank of gear to PVP and level up schools to get the spells you need for game 2

    Game 2 PVP, hardly any relation to the first, just on the same map.

    So making it easier for new players entering DF to get to game 2 cannot hurt ?
     
  19. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
    Supporter Lifetime

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    618
    Most MMO's...

    • Are not full-loot
    • Are not FPS skill based
    • Are segmented and divided into tiers
    • Have extensive new player areas
    • Have opt-in PvP
    • Are crap
    There's very few MMO's like Darkfall and comparing 'the grind' in DF to the grind in some carebear MMO where you never lose anything, you only ever fight people with toons like yours, you have a massive safe area to explore and level up in, and you don't need hours of practice just to master the controls is kind of a really stupid.

    If you want full loot, non-optional PvP then reduce grind if you want to maintain a player base.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  20. kilrath81

    kilrath81 Black Knight
    Lifetime Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    721
    Let me break it down for you.

    Noob dies to monster. Can't get back up 10 times in a day. Quit

    Noob dies to a monster players stand over him gawking while his bar goes up then loots him when he dies. Quit

    New player gets killed by scrub a in lawful lands. Scrub stands there and watches him die. Quit.

    Player rides/portals across the map. Sees interesting mob. Dies to it. Respawns. Rides all the way back. Grave is looted yet there was no one at the spawn when he dies. Quit.

    Noob group goes out and gets jumped by a noob killing asshole. New players can barely fight back. Friends slowely bleed out. Quit.

    It won't save the game. It will make vets used to not having to gank their kills cry like you are now. It is however one of the things that adds to the list. I had 3 people I brought here on launch die to goblins. No one would res them and instead wait for them to die to loot their shit goblin gear. They all quit in a day.

    Bleed out is very counter intuitive. You are down, see a bar, you expect to get up after the bar fills. Nope you die. To some you might as well of just died and been instantly sent to stone at that point.

    If you were 1v3 or more and they got wiped to your hit and run bunny hop spread and conquer tactics yoi likely caused people to quit. Why should you be able to 1v5 them? Obviously you were fighting WAY below your skill level. People in this community never cease to amaze me at how ignorant and selfish they can be. Either autores in nonlawless lands or just kill everyone outright. New players have a long list of wtfs in this game. That is one of them.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #140 kilrath81, Aug 1, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
    kingp43 and Slave Labor like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.