Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

ROA needs a massive overhaul

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hectic Stahli, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Hectic Stahli

    Hectic Stahli Skeleton Archer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    80
    Darkfall needs something major done to it for its current state. You absolutely will not dig yourself out of a hole this big unless something is changed fellas. There is years of gear farming for the veterans to crush noobs with, along with experience and their fat numbers. When a new player plays this game and finds nobody in the 10 billion km landmass it feels like its a solo player game, and if they do find someone its going to be a veteran with Q4 gear .5ing him. Its a self fulfilling cycle of new player joins, finds nobody his skill level because world is too big and quits when he has no chance against the small PVP he does find. The hole cannot be filled like this because this game goes against retaining new players in its current state.

    Then there is the stone hard fact that this map is about x10 too big for current and future population. Even IF you get 2000+ players from the expansion or from steam, it will still be too small!

    This games poor launch set it off on the wrong foot and it needs a correction course. It desperately needs an economic wipe, an economic revamp so that we are not back in this position two years later because of pixel hoarding and finally the map needs to be smaller until a reasonable population is introduced back to the game.

    One idea I saw tossed around that I really, Really liked was the idea of seasons for Darkfall. Darkfall is not a game that can be done without the inevitable gear surplus negating the mediocre/starting gear. It favors the wolves to the tipping point and basically ignores huge chunks of the world content. Eventually gear will, items, and cities WILL lose their value, like we have now.

    This game in 2 more years might have Q5 Dragon and R70 weapons be a semi normal PVP bag and its something I don't want to see. With seasonal Darkfall you get the fresh land grab and even playing field a few times a year and would allow entry for newer players to get into the game every time without feeling like the game is completely stacked against them. But even with this i'd still argue Darkfall needs a smaller map until it gets its footing under itself. As for the details of this, I could see the main goal of Darkfall Seasons to be winning and holding the most cities throughoutbut thats something Big Picture would need to figure out and then there is the incentives to keep people coming back. Either way I think this would be the best route to retaining new and old players and keep them entertained without the game growing too stale.
     
    Battle Smurf and WithoutShame like this.
  2. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6,920
    Likes Received:
    9,048
    Embers will help hopefully.

    Noobs need a safer zone, and some fucking direction in this game. Quests or something to do other than run around farming and getting .5'd
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  3. GoodDoggie

    GoodDoggie Earth Elemental

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    626
    The only part of DF worth salvaging is the combat.

    game needs a massive revamp, and a wipe while were at it.
     
  4. Hectic Stahli

    Hectic Stahli Skeleton Archer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    80
    I truly think if we get a map to match the population size you would see the fun factor go up for new players and everyone. The world just feels so empty. Just look at the cities with everyone hugging inside because for one its not worth it to look for World PVP and two - there are too many damn cities and no value in them. If the population ever reaches 5k+ concurrent then maybe the map can go back to what it is now, but it can't survive the way it is now.

    Cutting it down to a dozen cities and hamlets but having the right amount of space to spread people around without feeling overwhelming sounds really fun. Plus if there is only four goblin spawns instead of the 10,000 the game currently has then newer players might actually see people of their own level for once rather being in empty world for weeks.

    However, I think this is all for nothing unless there is some sort of wipe or a seasonal change to the game to give newer players a chance to compete gear wise. Some sort of sink needs to be implemented to keep the economy gear at around the Q3, Fullplate, and R50 level for everyday gearbags. Not this 100k+ Q4, Cobra, Infernal, R60 full enchanted sets that everyone seems to normalize. That or it needs seasons. Or a better idea.
     
    WithoutShame likes this.
  5. GoodDoggie

    GoodDoggie Earth Elemental

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    626
    The big issue with making high end gear like infernal REALLY HARD to get so that we dont end up in a situation where everyone runs around in nothing but infernal is that because of how minor the advantage you gain from having infernal instead of fp it will simply not be worth it for most people to farm infernal, whats the point of spending 10x the time on a gear bag for 5% improvement.
     
  6. Xipos<3

    Xipos<3 Stormgraive
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    185
    Game would be good with an extra 2000+ players. What NEEDS to be done before any marketing, is some NPE improvement. Something in-game that will walk the player through the "objectives" of the game. Too many times our new guys simply ask us "what are we supposed to do now?" after some other activity we guide them in. If the new players want to play solo inbetween clan sessions, they need to know what they can and should do.

    Some video tutorial upon start-up or first login, or a short and compact compendium containing essential FAQs like "What to do in Agon", "How quests work", "How tasks work" etc. illustrated with pictures.
     
    Blaze, Thrill Kill and WithoutShame like this.
  7. MikerotchBAGFACE

    MikerotchBAGFACE Varangian Warthane

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    936
    I think seasons for darkfall would be cool as long as clans had incentive to win them / small scale objectives aswell for soloists
     
    l0st exile and WithoutShame like this.
  8. Raap

    Raap Gravelord

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    229
    To achieve anything you need capable people to work on it. BPG has, what, 3 part-time programmers? Designing is (relatively) easy, it is text, spreadsheets, and images. But it is not implementation, until programmers expand the tools or add the new functionality often needed.

    That's not to say there are not any low hanging fruits left to pick that do not involve new or altered code, in fact there are tons, and they are easy to point out if you start a new character today and try playing it for a few weeks without free hand-outs.

    * I do assume here the engine is not a complete train wreck that needs code-level changes for basic alterations.
     
    Xipos<3 likes this.
  9. JasperHawkins

    JasperHawkins Infernal
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    702
    Honestly people with these types of ideas don't really 'get' Darkfall. If you know and appreciate the game for what it is, stuff like "map is too big
    and we need seasons" reeks of inexperience.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  10. GoodDoggie

    GoodDoggie Earth Elemental

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    626
    A person who thinks darkfall is in an acceptable state doesnt 'get' people and doesnt 'get' what makes for good gameplay and doesnt 'get' basic principles of designing a functional mmo.
     
  11. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Crypt Guard
    Benefactor

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    191
    Thing is, what are you basing your experience on? Most mmos are grindfests with noskill combat and are just a huge time sink with no risk anywhere.

    If you compare Darkfall to EVE or Mortal Online or RuneScape, then you have a bit more of a better comparison.

    As for shrinking the world down, sure, it would make for less dead areas, but it is a huge overhaul, for a small benefit, since the hotspots stay the same. Also, if anyone thinks the world map could supply 2000 or 5000 people, that is just being delusional. As is, leenspar golem is camped almost 24/7. There are only 1-2 spawns for many materials. If anything, if we get a few hundred more players, the hotspots will start to die out, since no one will be able to get out of there with loot before someone else comes, ruining the profits reason for visiting those areas.

    I think what would help would be spawning newbs in capitols, and having a bit more incentives to return to capitols once or twice per day for some daily quest, or gold sink, or something. Would make the world feel less empty for newbs. And the promised arena will also definitely help.
     
  12. Xipos<3

    Xipos<3 Stormgraive
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    185
    Darkfall from DF1 and what we still have largely in ROA is mostly just accidents. AV never intended Darkfall to be this kind of action-like combat mmo, they imagined a sandbox where people would become firemages or sword-wielding knights and roleplay. The launch was rushed in 2009 because of lack of funding, and a dire need for cashflow. They finished what they could, and just went with it. The combat is a mess, although it turned out to be fun by accident. Then they just went with the flow and did some balances to keep people playing with their abomination of game design.

    If you look through the standalone emulator files, you will realize what a mess AV was in, and how much shit they didn't implement or rather reverted and changed in the last moments before 2009 launch. So many weird mobs, spells, magic schools, skills were left out.

    The Darkfall we have now is fun, but accidental. That's not good game design at all, even though we enjoy it because of years spent playing it and getting used to all the weird quirks. Changes have to be made, with good game design, if this is ever gonna be more than a nostalgia private server trip.



    DND was really on to something, but sadly flopped as a business. Their game wasn't bad, it was just unfinished, probably in a worse shape than how DF1 launched because of all the missing auxilliary and support functions needed for their core design concepts. If DND had it's full roadmap developed, it would have been amazing. It was a real attempt to form Darkfall into a real MMORPG, away from the MMO Arena game we have now. BPG could take a few pages from their book, and try to implement some similar combat changes whilst learning from DND's mistakes. Would definitely make for a more immersive experience, and thus an actual MMORPG feeling to the game. Or not. I'm fine with either at this point tbh.

    But something that could benefit ROA greatly, is a ranked arena with annual seasons. This would ultimately create some sort of objective and reason to play the game, beyond just sieging and casual PvP.
     
  13. Lincoln Hawk

    Lincoln Hawk Fire Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    478
    DnD absolutely gutted combat, and the diversity that everyone thinks was a thing was just an illusion. 95% of all mages were air/arcane, 90% of melee archers were GS users, the only thing they managed to add as a playstyle was making sword and board actually viable.

    The one thing DnD did get right was holding upkeep, which got people out into the world and at villages, it also meant ppl had to choose their holdings instead of what is here in RoA with clans owning 10's of dead holdings, which makes it near on impossible for newer clans/alliances to get any sort of foothold in the game in regards to holdings and in doing so adding to the political game.

    I think its possible to add diversity without destroying playstyles long term loyal players enjoy, akin to destroyer but for specialised mages etc etc, or even through gear. Ive always thought Transmuted staffs and weapons were a real missed opportunity in that regard.
     
  14. Thrill Kill

    Thrill Kill Goblin Shaman
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    42
    QFT
     
  15. Kol Taggar

    Kol Taggar Infernal
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    515
    Seasons are an intriguing idea.
     
  16. KingLlama

    KingLlama Infernal
    Supporter Lifetime

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    501
    Likes Received:
    428
    The game needs npe and a better starting point. The graphics are being updated soon enough. A small team is making leaps and bounds with a engine that has no great documentation.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    NonFactor, Blaze and Shieldbreaker like this.
  17. NeroVitus

    NeroVitus New Member
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    39

    Really though DF has always been a game that is most fun at launches-- that's why every single launch attracts to many new people/people who have been away for so long. Seasons and frequent wipes prevent banks from getting loaded to the point of everything seeming pointless. I like that idea a ton as long as the grind stays lower.
     
    Fengor, Kol Taggar and l0st exile like this.
  18. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    761
    AV already tried and listened to people with the same old post, and look at where that got them.

    I agree that we need a major revamp but more along the lines of adding back character progression, skill caps, and replace the karma system with a reputation system.

    Upgrade the graphics some, which looks like its coming along very well, add sound emitters, scripted events, story telling, jobs
    I'm not really a fan of games that hold your hand, but adding a Faction system that focuses on hand holding PvE would bring PvP into the game like firing a bullet out of a gun.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  19. Lord Zanuul

    Lord Zanuul Spellgazer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    557
    Noob on noob pvp ... Everything else fixes itself over time
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  20. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
    Wealthy Affluent Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Messages:
    4,571
    Likes Received:
    3,210
    considering current game performance i cant figure how HORRENDOUS would be a siege with 150 vs 150 ppl.

    if we're looking for 2k active players someday we need drastically optimize performance before.