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Server Wipe

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Leo Woods, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    A few ideas to drive this discussion:

    Seasons of some kind for the holding/conquest system with a reset mechanic of some or all holdings.

    Catchup mechanics such as no or virtually no PvP skill leveling, leveling gives PvE increases only as an example.

    A second server that runs 3-4 month seasons with a full reset and transfer of characters/skills only to the long term main server. This idea is present in games like path of exile

    As a team we've discussed many of these kinds of catchup mechanics over the years but haven't found the right solution that we think fits the game. Persistence is important in an MMORPG to us and in our opinion hard wiping all long term progress in a persistent MMORPG is a breach of trust.
     
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    #21 Andrew, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  2. Auron

    Auron Chosen of Khamset
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    For me you have to add new armour and mage archery spec and help new players....safe zone ...many resource in the banc when they start...and make a lot of teasers because anyone know rise of agon...
     
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    Giving a bunch of starting resources is problematic for players abusing it by making many free accounts. Improving starting quests, daily/weekly tasks and more safety early on are on our immediate radar, some of these changes are planned for the next major patch.
     
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  4. Auron

    Auron Chosen of Khamset
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    Yes its better improving task and quests...i hope many new players coming...
     
  5. GrimReapiN

    GrimReapiN Chosen of Khamset
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    On seasons:

    If the territory control system has a function in place, it will be help. Expiration of unused holdings. But first and foremost you must bring value to holdings. There must be some inherent capacity of value to owning a holding and having it connected to other holdings owned by one clan. It's difficult to discuss some form of seasons or conquest system until holdings have value, i.e. a purpose for sieges and defense.

    On catchup mechanics:

    It seems this thought is a divergence of PvP and PvE, which is what Darkfall is most remembered for. Ganking and being ganked while PvE is what we all got hooked on. The competitive PvP is nice, but if that's all there was, I'd just go play Quake. Which is the situation most of us are in. We play Quake, or CS, or yadda yadda. No one just wants PvP. If you incentivize some "catchup mechanic", it should reward group play or some form of open world PvE. The higher the risk you take, the more XP a mob will reward. But on that same note it is difficult to police any exploiting of these mechanics, to which I would argue who really gives a fuck at this point. At least it would give new players an incentive in joining the world. The NPE does not need to separate players. It needs to throw them right the fuck in there, with other NEW players, not vets, so that they can experience the purpose of Darkfall, which is that adrenaline you feel when being ganked or ganking someone... that hint of danger when farming.

    So how do you separate new players from vets? That's something worth discussing. I doubt many new players care about conquest. Siege taking. etc. So, give vets holdings worth owning and sieging. That's a good first step. Another great step is valuable group farming, away from the noobs. Anything to keep vets away from noobs. The way to do this is not by making noobs invulnerable at goblin farms. It's by keeping the vets completely away from noobs. Griefing will occur, of course. But I find the best way to prevent griefing is by telling noobs to get the fuck away from the starter towns, tell them you receive higher XP gains for staying far away. You teach them that with risks comes some benefits, etc.

    The irony of every discussion on NPE is that we keep trying to keep them in a known location, safe from the world of Darkfall. Fuck that. Make new players' locations ambiguous. You could be farming/leveling anywhere! Hey guess what, if I know this at a Vet... and I wanna grief.... I gotta go out into the world and explore. Not sit afk at sanguine goblins waiting for noobs to show up.


    On seasons:

    The leveling of a character in Darkfall is overlooked. It's integral in the game's functioning. I really do believe removing the grind in Darkfall breaks the game. You don't go out to farm mats to spam spells, and you're not in the world. There has to be a grind in Darkfall in some capacity! We must be able to achieve something. I think seasons is a great way to do this! The forever grind of leveling a character. Why has this always been seen as a negative aspect of Darkfall? We have meditation, skill books, etc that aren't being used simply because everyone can become maxed within 2 weeks, and then they disappear off the face of Darkfall.

    I want to again be the destroyer of human lands as my Mahirim because I knew how to level faster than most of the noobs that were leveling at the time. And you know what, next season I bet everyone I wrecked before is going to know a faster way to level because they were fucking pissed last time. And thus the player base grows as a whole.

    Leveling in Darkfall is great. Early game and late game conquest is great (but gets old after 6 mo. - 1 yr.). Mass accumulation and needing gear is harder when no one is selling and there is no economy, which is what I myself and most players complain about - how annoying and difficult it can be to get gear.

    Yes, gear is tedious to acquire. This is the wrong grind. Every player should not have to be a crafter. I want to go farm gold, buy a set, and PvP. I don't want to have to farm sellies, farm leenspar golems, mind shit and so on.
    I'm more than happy to fam selentine golems in order to sell the shit to a crafter and then buy a set. I don't want to craft. I'll leave that to them, it's what sandbox is for.



    Last note about persistence, breach of trust, etc.:

    How many of these vets are actually playing the game. How many of these wipe abstinent players actually give a fuck, and furthermore I ask of them... how fun was your leveling experience at the beginning? Do you remember the beginning? The rush for grinding, the rush for gear, the completion of tasks, the early conquest?

    How is that comparing to what we have now? The sitting afk at the bank... the mindless killing of the same shit with absolutely NO competition. The empty villages with terrible rewards because lets face it, your bank is full or your friend's bank is. The once a week siege log-in. The dumbass pre-arranged fights of perfect characters with perfect gear.

    It's stupid as fuck, boring as fuck, ignorant as fuck.

    End the bank staring. End the logging in just to hit a siege once a week, or pay a village. End the mindless farming of shit that has no purpose, which rewards are nearly nothing on the grand scheme of things.

    Seasons is a great idea. Keep everyone's characters and loot. Put it on the "main" server. Then create a 3 month season server. Any longer than that, and people won't give a fuck.

    The way you keep players coming back each seasons is to release an integral change to the game. Something fresh and new. Otherwise, no point in coming in. Some ideas for seasons changes would be: Mob shuffling, loot changes, loot additions, mob additions. Change some PvP shit... make fire magic the best next season... add something or change something with necro magic. META CHANGES. People will want to experiment. Why? Because it's their chance at being better than someone else at something. We're all men here folks, we here to do thangs and make names.






    TL;DR if you don't want to read all of that, I'm basically saying what everyone else has said:
    Bring value to holdings, hopefully will come with territory control system.
    Do not alienate new players and give them a safe space, just find a way to seperate them from vets and allow them to communicate and play with other noobs, which was always the purpose of clans like NEW and Freehold from original Darkfall... game should do the functions of those clans on its own.
    Seasons is a fuckin' good idea, 3 months is perfect. Patch the meta during those changes, wipe the server, keep everyone's CURRENT characters on a PERMANENT server.
     
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  6. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    Great points thanks for contributing. Like I said we're looking at these kinds of options to keep things fresh but just a straight hard wipe isn't something we're considering.

    If we were to do a season of some kind we'd look to have some changing aspects or special difference in each season likely. The question is what is to keep people playing on the non season server? If we start a season for 3 months it would equate to a dip in the long term server. Perhaps we have a 3 month season followed by 3 months with just the long term server so there's not always a new start server every 3 months. This would encourage more activity to remain on the main server for the 3 months there isn't a seasonal server perhaps?

    This is where we've run into blocks in designing such a system alongside TCS/factions as this may be seen as a pseudo wipe and the main server could be a ghost town with most opting for the season server.
     
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  7. Leo Woods

    Leo Woods Dire Zombie

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    IMO 2 servers is a bad idea. If the population isn't low enough, it's only going to be reduced with the introduction of a new server..

    Not to mention the current scarcity of BPG resources will become even more spread when operating 2 servers..

    Full focus should be on 1 server and 1 server only, in my opinion.

    I've spent some time drafting general points of what would in my view be the 'perfect' Mmorpg. I hope to spend more time on this (ideally will be very detailed) and then maybe some ideas could be extracted and implemented into RoA. Or used to help produced the next big Mmo.. not turning my back on RoA, just seeking a potential business opportunity. I feel there is currently a huge gap in the market for a Hardcore MMO similar to DF, where good money can be made. All modern MMO's (Triple A titles) are all too mainstream these days.. all too similar. Take WoW, Archeage, BDO as examples, they're all just.. meh. Not very rewarding. Everyone follows the same quest line. Everything is predictable.

    Darkfall is different. We just need some more.. vision. Something is missing. I know there are a LOT of people seeking for the real deal, hardcore sandbox, all reminiscent of the old Runescape EQ etc that new MMO's just don't live up to.
     
  8. Auron

    Auron Chosen of Khamset
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    If you want make another server wait when many players play the game and make it for eu players.....both servers players can duell in the arena...
     
  9. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Varangian Warthane
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    I think three-month-long seasons have potential. A record books page on the websites that tracks the accomplishments of clans and individual players on various criteria. Perhaps things like crafting, gathering, killing monsters, capturing holdings, etc could earn clan fame. You earn clan fame for each day you own each holding but some are worth more than others. The top 50 clans are recorded for each season on a leader board page and get some kind of prizes based on fame accumulated. At the end of each season, all holdings are wiped and become available for the next season. There are plenty of interesting twists such as clan capitals, getting to start new seasons with a few holdings for high fame clans, and so on. The possibilities are vast.
     
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  10. GM Ibis

    GM Ibis Goblin Warrior
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    Been playing with the idea of a "league" server
    would be 3-4 months
    League server would be transfered to standard server after each league, banks are merged, character is added to the standard league so that you keep your char and on standard server would at first have 1 char but as leagues comes and go you would slowly start getting more chars on the account up to a max of 3? you can only create 1 char and if you already have a char you need to delete that to make a new, 1 char can be logged in at the same time.

    Each league would come with a major patch that might tweak some stuff in favour for something, new stuff added, shark mount with lazer gun? mobs moved around, loot tables randomized, switch some of the holdings resource nodes around?, could be that one league we want to try and go with tweaks to spells, boosting their effects, reducing their effects such as Kilrain played with at some point of WoF would push you away instead of sucking you in?
    gear could have their resistances moved a bit around

    3 months leauge, 1 month standard as a break to get the next league setup and ready

    Make leaderboards for clans and players
    reward top 3 of clans and players after a season end with a title and skins that you only ever will be able to get from a league and after that its not possible getting a title or skin again

    Having a 2nd temp server would allow us to wipe 3 months or so after we launched it, would give us a good place to test some things out as live testing

    but just my thoughts of it
     
  11. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Infernal
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    https://forums.riseofagon.com/threads/battle-for-yssam-seasonal-server.17306/

    I think a seasonal server would be great.

    Make the non season more casual friendly with expanded safe zones. Add an arena to the non season server. While the seasonal server is active, pause any sieging and house taxes. Allow people to bring trophys from the seasonal server back to the permanent server.
     
  12. BeatIt

    BeatIt Obsidian Golem
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    sounds good but lets start whit the 2 year TC patch
     
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  13. GrimReapiN

    GrimReapiN Chosen of Khamset
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    I would assume the long term server would benefit from bank migration. I could see players using it as a means for dueling

    Could go a step further and allow wonders from the longterm server to affect players on the short term server, giving conquest for the main server as well.
     
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  14. Auron

    Auron Chosen of Khamset
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    Clan fame its a good idea for me but another server whit season where every 3 months clans lost all the holdings its a bad idea....its to much complicated ...
     
  15. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    Ah that's an interesting thought on some kind of conquest benefit transferring over. In the TCS system we plan capitals for a clan where their benefits will flow from. Perhaps we could let clans own their capital holding at the start of a season. It would need to be built up but they could start at the holding. We would need to tiptoe very carefully in this space to ensure we're not giving any more impacting advantage.
     
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  16. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
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    I vote for relaunch and seasons. Keep houses on server
     
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  17. GrimReapiN

    GrimReapiN Chosen of Khamset
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    Another great idea.

    Having a city for vets to start in on a brand new server could help keep them away from the noobs trying to kill goblins.

    Having benefits carry over from the standard server is pretty unique, and an easy way to keep players interested in both servers. I'd argue it's the only way. You could also make that server premium only. So if you want to keep your old character and gear, you can do so on the "Eternal War" server for the monthly premium. That way there's no bullshit with alts and what not to deal with on two servers, I do not want a bunch of alts and bullshit on a server that arguably has more to lose. I would want real players. Furthermore, it plays into the "embers of war" expansion. Every season is a new ember branching from the main ember of war.

    There's an impass here, though. How far could the benefits be pushed before they're too strong? A 10% increase in experience gain or high regeneration while in your area could be disastrous. We all know how big of a difference even 1 dmg can do over the course of a fight. So I have an idea to cure this:

    The Coals of War (or some lore friendly idea)

    For a clan to activate their bonuses from the eternal war server, they must conquer the warfire in center map. It goes live every 36 hrs (off kilter so other timezones have a chance) and once activated, only that winning clan receives the bonus for the next 36 hrs.

    So now you have a server wide hotspot ehich provides a bonus that players can win, and you keep players interested in the main server. Only the most dedicated clan could muster a decent bonus, some may say its like a second job, but then you could just go capture the coals of war to deny everyone of their bonuses. Ezpz.

    Side note of coals of war, in the beginning of a server almost all clans would be trying to achieve a better bonus from the ember. So every 36 hrs you would see who is leveling what. Pretty neat idea, considering most would just maybe go hide in a hole and grind up instead. It'd bring them out of those holes for a chance to increase their grind rate

    Last note: a catalog of every winner of each coal of war could be created, and the clan who wins the most embers at the end of a season could receive a unique benefit, like a custom skinned sword for all members or a crown or something cosmetic that is character bound. This way, even clans who dont wish to engage in the warfare from the eternal server but still wish to compete on the temp. Server will have an incentive to do so.

    Or better yet, award conquest points for each capture which can be spent on clan bonuses.
     
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    #37 GrimReapiN, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  18. Void

    Void Chosen of Khamset
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    Are we at 1 or 2 thousand players now?
     
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  19. GM Ibis

    GM Ibis Goblin Warrior
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    if we went with a season server we really need to make sure as little as possible carry over from normal server else some poeple would be getting a waay to big leap ahead than others like if houses were to carry over then you have a huge leap ahead due to being able to have a house at the good farming spots from day 1, holdings shouldn't transfer over too since well you would have a holding near some really good farming spots from day 1. i would say if we went with seasons and a 2nd server then it should be a more or less clean slate with nothing transfered from the standard server
    Maybe stuff such as skins and titles would transfer over and that would be it

    lets say a clan decided they want calf as their starter capital city and would get that on seasons then no one would have a chance at it.

    if we then had leaderboard with rewards where sieges could be part of it then they would sit on a holding that would be hard to lose from the start rather than everyone had a fair chance at taking it

    The more that we would transfer over the less "content" people will say there is. instead of having to farm it all up from fresh.
     
  20. Auron

    Auron Chosen of Khamset
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    We have low population ...we dont need another server (season) better work on territory controll...
     
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