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So.... 'Load Lag'

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kal VenoM, Sep 17, 2015.

  1. Kal VenoM

    Kal VenoM Skeleton Archer
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    I'm not trying to be negative as I fully support this project, but we all remember how detrimental load lag was to the game. I'm not talking about the little spikes you got, which made you aware you were about to get jumped at your favourite PVE spawn. I'm talking about the huge FPS drop we all experienced during large scale sieges.. and by large I mean 100 v 100. If this game is successful and pulls in a large player base... are we really going to be able to handle a few 100 vs a few 100?

    For long term vets we've learnt to deal with it, but for new players it will be a massive disappointment and a lot will leave, like they did in the passed. Is it a possibility this team will be able to remove/reduce load lags impact on the game?
     
  2. Neilk

    Neilk Web Development & System Admin
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    Yes we will definitely be looking at this.

    On the bright side, I ran sieges perfectly in DFO with an old quad core before the i series of cpu's even game out. Modern CPU's are so much more efficient now that most people should have no issues with sieges.

    It will need to be tested when we can of course.
     
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  3. Kal VenoM

    Kal VenoM Skeleton Archer
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    Haha no one ran sieges perfectly dude! I mean decent spec comps could just about handle a 100 v 100 ... anything more than that was a warp fest...
     
  4. Kilset

    Kilset Black Knight
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    Warp fest? Are you talking about server lag? Or are you talking about actual FPS lag? I'm legitimately confused here.
     
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  5. Dum Dum

    Dum Dum Celestial
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    Man I cant wait to hear what you guys say about how terrible the game is coded..

    Its probably going to be like pulling earphones out of a bucket of earphones and the wires are all tangled and you're almost like.. fuck it im going to buy new earphones..

    Im just beginning to learn how to code in java and most of the code ive looked at are from teachers so its all well //commented and I just cant imagine the clusterfuck Aventurines code will look like.

    edit: dont get me wrong, its still really impressive how many players can be attending a siege and not crash the server.. but for this load lag thing to exist not only in the old game but aswell as dfuw without being fixed makes me assume its just someone looking at a grand canyon and saying fuck it, im going to lunch.
     
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  6. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    We have discussed load lag in the team and it is on our radar (no pun intended) to be corrected. Basically the system loads a player all at once somewhere around 300m in game. We discussed already a way to address this by soft loading assets in stages instead of the current method which causes that fps "freeze" when you come into range of a player.
     
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  7. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    There's really 2 options for the cause of the lag right?

    1, the server isnt sending the information fast enough so your game waits to receive that.
    2, the client gets a large bulk of information and struggles to handle it.

    We all know that video cards mean fuck all, the entire client runs on your CPU.
    So i personally suspect the 2nd to be the culprit
    How it is actually coded...have fun with that one...

    Staged loading could help here, but if its spread out over a period thats too long...you might not see the entirety of the enemy force untill you are almost in the middle of it.

    Having played from launch till shutdown (with a few small breaks)...
    At launch, i was part of a few sieges of hyperion. I would literally be warping across, shooting arrows into the air and hitting players that werent even there. And this would stay the same untill a very large part of the players was killed. (this was probably 1k+ people spread out over 1-3 map sections) 1-5 FPS.

    Pre-NA split. The merc/sun+blood fighting (joining in a little late).
    I would have huge lags getting up to the enemy force. Like 2-5 second freezes for a good bit before it finally all got loaded in.
    I would have like 10 FPS, i could aim at people....but there were loads of people just warping around and/or appearing/disappearing.
    this was like 200~400 people, on the big ones at least?

    After the NA split, things got much better preformance wise (<3 NA players though)
    There'd be like 100-180 people in a siege tops, there'd be like 1 or 2 big freezes. After which i had 25~ FPS and maybe a few people warping around. Nothing too huge.

    End days, there'd be like 50 people tops in a fight.
    I would get load lag, but the game wouldnt fully freeze. Would more be like a hickup, which made you aware there were other players.
    My FPS would hardly drop, nobody was warping around but there are instances where the model is well behind the actual hitbox (so that player was lagging). But i mean...my performance was good enough to notice that..
    Looking on the bright side.

    Ideally its removed, realistically i think there's always going to be some load lag. Its about keeping FPS preformance high enough in large fights and making sure the game doesnt fully freeze up on people.
    The large load lags really build suspension for me at least, knowing that there was a lot of people on the other side of the fight and shit was about to get real.
     
  8. trashsmasher

    trashsmasher Crypt Guard

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    http://www.amazon.com/The-Multiprocesso ... 0123973376

    load lag doesn't happen because the game is written like trash, it happens because multithreaded code is hard to get right. understandably they decided they would get more out of investing their time on the rest of the game.
     
  9. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    The game didnt even support multi core.
    You realise that the origins of DF are around like 1999 or something?

    DF UW is supposed to allow multi core, but im not sure how effective it is.
    There was load lag in the beta, and i think for a while after launch aswell.
    It sorta got less, but that may just be because population took a nose dive.
     
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  10. Dum Dum

    Dum Dum Celestial
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    I definitely think load lag can be eliminated without having to recode Darkfall to utilize multiple cores.

    Just by changing the way the game loads assets can help performance substantially.. I remember while loading in sometimes you would glitch where you didnt have the loading splash screen instead you would see the entire world load in one item at a time at rapid succession.. Just by making loading things asynchronous vs sequentially, you could more than likely expect to see way faster loading screens.
     
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  11. DAlonso

    DAlonso Finance Lead
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    There is load lag in UW currently.
    The only time I remember Darkfall without loadlag is at release.

    We will see what we can do with this important issue. Its in all dev minds for sure.
     
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  12. Action_Jackson

    Action_Jackson Deadeye
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    How does it happen anyway?
    I remember a statement from av where they explained they changed some mechanics but i dont know exatcly.
    Something like at launch it was loading areas and later they made it differnt...
     
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  13. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    Well at release of DFO, you would load in an entire map section.
    So there was load lag, but only if you crossed over.

    This resulted in lots of crashes, if the map section you were going to was very busy.
    Say, a 1+k siege.
    And going between map sections, like a shoe lace, was a good way of shaking off people with bad pc's.

    This however became a real issue when the alliances grew very large and the shardholder of a siege would crash, automatically losing the siege.
    They changed it to load around you in a 300m radius, but thats when load lag was born.

    its worth noting that the game actually didnt close automatically.
    You could alt tab back in and continue to play on the map section you were on.
    It just wouldnt load any new players getting on the map section and it wouldnt let you cross over to the next because there was no floor there.

    This meant that in day-to-day play, if you crashed, you could let everybody know. Find a spot with some cover and despawn your mount before you clicked the "ok" button to terminate your client.
    In sieges the shardholder logging off meant the siege ended.
    This resulted in a stratagy, where you would continiously approach and leave the map section the shard holder was on to force a crash.
    At that point, enemies would become invisible to him. And since everybody else is relogging after crashing...it was chaotic at best.
     
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  14. Action_Jackson

    Action_Jackson Deadeye
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    I had such a shitty computer at release. So when we got chased i always fell behind when we entered a new map section. Had lag for 10-20 sec and died 90% , my friends then had to come back and help me and died as well...
    Was after release-mount race times
     
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  15. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    So the issue with an entire map section is that its a lot of information all at once.
    And you still had everything from the previous map section aswell, because you only just left it.
    A map section is much much bigger then a 300m circle, and you had two of those.

    So people lagging and/or crashing at map-section lines was very common.
    This indicates that the programming was at fault, not the servers.

    The 300m area around you however became a very easy "radar" to notice other players with.
    I will say that the loadlag got a lot worse after wildlife got introduced to the game, which i still believe to be done as an anti-map hack tool...
    Because it really didnt add anything to the game...
    So perhaps a first step in resolving this would just be to remove wildlife and see how bad it still is.
     
  16. Eagleglow

    Eagleglow Ghost
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    DFO did have multi core support but really shitty one, if you locked DFO client down to one cpu core instead of two cores you lost about 10% fps.
    I played with three accounts at the same time for most of my DFO play time.

    EDIT: and to day if ppl still dont play on there core 2 duo and old amd cpus they will have no problem with sieges, my old i7 2600k did about 35 fps in kvitstine F300 siege with about 450 players in that siege https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te4P_1GPQ7w , but then it was problem with the server loading players in and out but every one ells had shitty computers so the lag teleported around like fuck.
     
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  17. SteelReserve

    SteelReserve New Member
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    Besides a slight hic-up on loading sieges I never had a problem on a now well outdated cpu. I don't think the problem will be significant enough to draw the attention away from more important issues.
     
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    It's not a server lag it's an FPS lag created locally when your computer tries to load a bunch of assets at once. We're hopeful we can find a solution and one of our programmers had already had this on his mind right away when he joined the project.
     
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  19. Zoro

    Zoro Spellgazer

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    Load lag didn't bother me.
     
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  20. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Load lag definitely needs to be fixed just because of the slideshow it would turn sieges into. Or the 10 second screen freeze you'd get when loading a siege force.

    However I love what load lag did for daily pvp. If you were roaming, it let you know when to scout an area more thoroughly, letting you find PvP that you otherwise may not have found.

    And for farming, it let you know when to be on full alert and to keep your buffs up. It would be exhausting to have to be at this level of alertness the entire time you're farming. Getting a complete unsuspected jump on someone can give the attacker a massive advantage, possibly a little too much. If load lag is removed, I think some other things should be tweaked a bit to help a solo player detect nearby enemies. Perhaps increasing the volume of mounts moving and player footsteps.