Obtaining spells in this game isn't fun. The essential spells for the standard mage is scattered in all of the schools with a couple of exceptions (water magic), which forces a player to grind a little bit of everything when that's just bad game design. For example, Eye Rot is level 90 necromancy which is undeniably one of the best spells in the game. Why must one level a school almost to completion just for one important spell? Without that spell, Necromancy could mostly be ignored instead of everyone having to do it.

The core problem is that you need a certain spell school level to obtain spells. The level of the school is meaningless outside of being a prerequisite to obtain spells and the important subskills. Let's discuss ways to change this.

• Lower the 'core' spells level requirement

• Increase the speed at which the school levels. After all, it's the spells themselves that really matter.

• Remove most level requirements and let us level what spells we want to.

• Add spells (!) as rewards to the task system and more essences/spell scrolls.

I believe these changes would make the game far more accessible and make grinding less tedious and even a little more fun.

 

If Magic and melee base schools leveled significantly faster, I think it'd be as effective as switching around when the spells unlock. Then no time is spent determining what number is good for eye rot etc.

I whole heartedly agree though.

 

all of those are bandaid fixes that completely ignore the real problem. the problem is not that powerful spells are locked behind high school skill requirements. the most powerful spells should be in the highest levels of the school. the real problem is actually really simple. there are no skillcaps in darkfall. this game needs custom roles like UW as certain school blocking each other wont work. f.e. no1 will pick water over fire. this so called "freedom" thing we have atm is retarded AF. it creates an unneeded grind barrier and removes all sorts of diversity which is super boring. combat is monotone and so much worse in this game compared to UW simply because of the lack of a skillcap.

 

I dunno, slow/delayed shot is pretty powerful. Mages can't haste themselves.

 

This is just a symptom to the problem that you have to be a master of all trades to be competitive unless you play destro which isn't really that fun to play. This game sorely needs customizations/build diversity so not every fight is the same. Imagine if you played league of legends but there was only two champions to play.

 

no it isnt. limiting the amount of spells one can use at the same time is the answer. less grind and more diversity. i do understand why you guys hesitate tho. without a doubt a change like that would change the meta completely and obviously there is gonna be alot of broken builds that require some skills to be adjusted but that is actually good for the game. right now we´re playing a game that is pretty much figured out since years and every new player is just playing catch up. a skillcap would create a new meta in which everyone can be part of the development process and it would constantly change with every nerf/buff you implement. obviously vets who are familar with df combat would still have an advantage over new players but it would still reduce the gap to some extend and allow ppl to customize their build individually based on their strengths and weaknesses. right now you just have to use everything cos everyone else is using everything making everyone essentially the same. thats as dumb as it can possibly get from a design pov.

 

Dont agree with artificial limitations like that.

Returning and changing staff transmutes to reduce the overall benefit of having 6 schools leveled would help though.

 

limitations like that are the only way this game will ever have diversity. its also common practice to have a skillcap in classless games and with good reason. you cant allow a player to use every single spell/skill/ability at the same time cos thats exactly what every player will do then. meaning there is exactly 1 build(destroyer is not a build) that everyone has to be to be competitive.

also holding on to a since years established meta that will never change again cos the game is completely figured out by now is a pretty dumb idea if you wanna target a new playerbase. changing meta is a cornerstone of every long term motivation. no1 wants to play the same crap over and over year after year, no matter how fun and challenging the combat is. eventually it gets old and ppl get bored.

 

Limitations will just result in a single best build that everyone will use anyway and then we're back to square one except now with a horribly imbalanced game and developers playing non-stop catch up.

 

i cant commend on how hard the implementation would be from a programming perspective as i dont have the code so ill just believe you when you say that its hard to do. nevertheless i think its gonna be needed eventually cos specializations can only do so much. yes there will be a few ppl that will use them cos of preference or mostly cos they are simply too lazy to lvl the "jack of all trades" build. but the majority will still roll with it cos it gives the most flexibility. i just dont see how you could possibly balance specs vs "jack of all trades" properly. seems like a bigger effort than balancing the game around a skillcap tbh.

you´re right. the first versions of the meta will develop exactly like you described. an ongoing process of balancing abilities would have to be the followup but thats what i mean with creating an ongoing meta development process everyone can be part of. the first versions will be unbalanced and there will ofc be fotm builds but its gonna get better with every patch and eventually turn out balanced. UW has already proven that it can work. yes there was alot of cheese cos AV never bothered to tackle the balance issue but atleast everyone had his own personal kind of cheese build that isnt exactly like the cheese of the next guy. i mean be honest, you cant exactly say the current combat of knockup -> ray -> ww -> blind -> ray -> knockup -> ray and so on is not cheesy AF. df combat is essentially juggle your opponent to get free rays and use blinds for when knockup is on cd and/or you need to stat. in my book that isnt a deep combat system. its just cheesy as hell and UW combat with custom roles was actually infinity times superior.

 

What a patronising and condescending attitude to player feedback...

 

I can't tell if you're hunting for reasons to bash a dev or the biggest pussy on the planet.

Also condescending means, "having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority". Learn to English.

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter of using synonyms for emphasis, but in Spanish German, french or Italian. By the way that's also condescending because I assume you don't speak any of those.

Concerning the matter at hands, being petty is fine, but not when you are a developer interacting with a player expressing he's feedback. Especially when the player is being more constructive than the dev. I'm not saying that to bash Kilrain, coz obviously Nat won't be distraught by his comment. It's just that this kind of behavior doesn't encourage a new player to post potentially valuable feedback. It dosen't make him "look cool".

 

While it's possible that one build is just flat out better than anything else, it's also possible that the initial most powerful build gets countered by another particular build, which in turn gets countered by another, and then you have a shifting (read; healthy) metagame. One of the issues with everyone having access to everything is that there's no room for an actual metagame to develop and evolve. Giving players the ability to evolve the metagame is one of the main reasons why a game like Starcraft has been thriving for about 20 years.

 

this. a game that has a stagnating metagame is usually considered dead. some diehard fans will keep playing it but it wont get any noticable new player influx. i know alot of the vets wanna preserve the meta of the old game but it has to change if the game wants to maintain a good population.

 

I actually dread watching new player streams. They get told they have to grind out the same shitty useless spells from witchcraft, greater magic and spell chanting to reach the real spells they need and want. These spells got long cooldowns, do poop damage in pvp and pve, and they are boring af. All that combined makes for a unhappy, uninterested player.

I'd like to see restrictions done away and allow players to level the schools/spells they want to right away. It will be much more amazing for a new player to cast vampiric touch or virtuous wrath rather than needles or rend. The cool spells might even suck them in to keep playing.

The veterans already have their skills where they want them. All that is left are new players or alts trying to catch up. Unless we just want to keep toaster strudleling dudes with lvl 44 fireballs and lvl 19 WoFs?

 

Specialisations are possibly the worst idea that ever came to Darkfall.

They need to be removed, with prejudice, never to return.

Since DFO I've said specialisation needs to be done through the gear someone carries, not something they bought at the vendor.

 

It can be both though. We already have quite good gear / encumberance system, which allows both: mix and matching and adjusting it (to a limited extent) to one's playstyle. Building on top of existing systems can produce same results and you don't need to scrapping it all so you can reinvent some of the same thing's via gear.