Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Splitting PVP and PVE progression - planting the seed

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by kilrain, Jun 4, 2019.

?

Level of interest

  1. Extremely Interested

    11 vote(s)
    19.3%
  2. Very Interested

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Somewhat Interested

    4 vote(s)
    7.0%
  4. Somewhat Uninterested

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Very Uninterested

    2 vote(s)
    3.5%
  6. Extremely Uninterested

    40 vote(s)
    70.2%
  1. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,628
    Likes Received:
    2,418
    This is a pvp based game and your talking about further removing pvp progression that should not have been removed to begin with. I am ok with more dynamic pve and some sort of progression but I thought that is what specilizations was for? If your trying to bring in some kind of huge pve crowd that can safely play and farm to boost your income so that you can focus on pvp your gonna find that pvp will slowly decay since you will have to spend so much more time trying to please the pve crowd. Then darkfall is no longer darkfall.

    It is your game do as you see fit but if you plan to stick to the original goal your company stated when this all began and gotten all of our support for then this is a bad idea, as the poll indicates.
     
  2. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
    Staff Member Developer Team Lead

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    6,396
    Based on what I've read in this thread my wording must be off because it doesn't seem anyone, especially you, understand what it is I'm saying. This has nothing to do with specialization (Destroyer, Mage Killer, etc), this has nothing to do with farming in safety. This has everything to do with allowing for continued character progression without affecting pvp balance. If PVP progression were to continue then the gap between new player and vet would increase making it more difficult to compete in a pvp setting, so instead we allow players to become more proficient in pve by leveling up their pve only if they choose to.

    Go read through countless threads on this forum and you'll see pvp players requesting more ways to grind out and progress in PVE. That's what this is about.
    --- Post updated ---
    This is one of those things I could have put in and no one would have been disappointed.
     
    Fengor and Dim Mok like this.
  3. Isaac Clarke

    Isaac Clarke Chosen of Khamset
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    ...
     
  4. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
    Staff Member Developer Team Lead

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    6,396
    Explain how it would be disappointing so I can clear up the confusion.
     
  5. Isaac Clarke

    Isaac Clarke Chosen of Khamset
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    man its not what you said, its how you said it deste locke
     
    Hook likes this.
  6. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
    Hero

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,107
    Likes Received:
    2,991
    I'm starting to realize just how many braindeads still play Darkfall..... For the first time ever I feel bad for you, @kilrain.
     
    Fengor, Shieldbreaker and Kol Taggar like this.
  7. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    379
    Most of these kids fall on the spectrum. And not like the socially retarded genius kind of spectrum.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Animal likes this.
  8. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6,927
    Likes Received:
    9,058
    Get some PVE styled perks/specializations.

    Something like a permanant Dragonslaughter title that is unlockable through a quest or something.

    Bonus damage, lifesteal VS mobs, idk.

    Things like this ofc will lead to mob buffs/changes and help innovate the game.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #48 Sero, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    Slayven, Fengor, CreZee and 1 other person like this.
  9. Lord Zanuul

    Lord Zanuul Spellgazer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    557
    As others in this thread have mentioned the PVP aspects of this game are not exclusive to the fighting the crafting and the resource acquisition are very important aspects of being PVP viable especially for newer players you can't alter one without the other being affected they are not exclusive
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  10. CreZee

    CreZee Wildtribe Mage
    Loyal Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    230
    I really like this idea. Maybe after 10 dragons you get small modifier for damage increase, 25 it increases again, 50 again, etc etc. By killing them over and over you gain damage and become more proficient at killing them. Not only does it make sense but it wouldn't require new skills and wouldn't affect PVP at all. It would also allow people to pick and choose what kind of monsters they enjoy farming and possibly bring excess materials to the market and actually create a vibrant economy.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  11. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
    Staff Member Developer Team Lead

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    6,396
    What you are referring to is being self sufficient, not pvp viability and what I'm proposing here does not make you less self sufficient, even though that wouldn't matter or be a bad thing for a mmo, it provides a way to become more self sufficient.

    There's no need to add new skills, that was just one possibility.

    So basically you and sero both agree with the concept.
     
    CreZee likes this.
  12. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Crypt Guard
    Benefactor

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    191
    I am dissapointed as well. More incentives for sheep, and richer sheep for wolves to kill for more loot, is a better thing for everyone. Yet most seem to be against it, for reasons that are unfathomable to me.
     
    CreZee likes this.
  13. CreZee

    CreZee Wildtribe Mage
    Loyal Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    230
    I think the concept here is just a bit overwhelming for everyone to take in and asks for a lot of scrutiny. I think Sero's suggestion was a much simpler way of basically conveying the point you wanted to get across and ultimately would be simpler to introduce as it wouldn't require a duplication of anything if it's just adding modifiers to monster types. The only problem that I could see with this is monsters that are the same type as players (Dwarf slayer, Human slayer, Ork slayer). These enchants work on both humans and mobs so the developers would have to be careful to make sure that any "Slayer" buff for PVE is in fact, only for PVE.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  14. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
    Staff Member Developer Team Lead

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    6,396
    Simpler in concept maybe easier to understand, yeah I can see that. I think I'm the only one really qualified to know what's easier to implement as I have the most time in the code base, but that's honestly beside the point. The real point here is to create an alternate path of progression strictly for pve that cannot interfere with pvp balance.
     
  15. Isaac Clarke

    Isaac Clarke Chosen of Khamset
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    This is all rhetoric, how is the existing journal system not exactly what you're describing lol

    From your first post you could have just said:

    Hey guys we want to add more PvE goals and incentives similar to our journal system
    ------------------


    But instead you said:

    Splitting PvE and PvP progression

    like it wasnt already split to begin with. Just keep it simple is where any confusion is coming from
     
    CreZee likes this.
  16. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
    Staff Member Developer Team Lead

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    6,396
    Nothing like the journal (that I never mentioned) that's not progression that's just stuff to do. Tasks. Progression is actually making your character better at something, learning, making them stronger. What I mentioned was the monster manual or monster compendium or whatever name it was given. That system is essentially what sero was talking about where the more you kill a monster the better you get at killing it. That system is similar in concept because what characters will end up with is another attribute based on the monster type or family that increases over time increasing your effectiveness at killing said monster or family. What I'm more specifically referring to here is splitting off of existing attributes, like strength, wisdom, intelligence, and allowing them to be progressed separately from the characters original versions that only affect pve.

    I added in skills as well, but this is meant to be a discussion so if skills are not something people want to worry about that is completely understandable. There are too many in the hotbars already.
     
    Billy Lee likes this.
  17. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Varangian Warthane
    Team B Lifetime

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    I like the idea of passive skills for pve. Chance for critical hits with polearms, damage vs beastmen, chance to loot extra gold, better odds at rare loot, ability to gather new materials, etc. Grinding attributes higher would be awesome
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Fengor likes this.
  18. Isaac Clarke

    Isaac Clarke Chosen of Khamset
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Dawg you're splitting hairs

    Its fine, not trying to argue just pointing out pve and pvp progression are by your definition split already

    Also I said on page one you should do what billy lee posted over a month ago, maybe you missed it
     
  19. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
    Staff Member Developer Team Lead

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    6,396
    I'm not trying to argue either, just trying to make sure the clarification is there. There is no difference between pvp and pve progression right now. When you level your character it affects both pvp and pve the same. By separating it players can continue to increase their pve progression without affecting pvp balance.

    It's important people understand what is meant when voting.
     
    Billy Lee likes this.
  20. Isaac Clarke

    Isaac Clarke Chosen of Khamset
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    We gotta find billy's original post because I remember him summing it up pretty well

    I agree with your plan, I think the wording is what threw me and maybe others off
     
    Fengor and kilrain like this.