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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jonah_Veil, Apr 28, 2017.
Does Darkfall not already have mipmapping for LOD?
Graphics overhaul= far too expensive and time consuming and no matter what they can reasonably do it WON'T satisfy the type of people you're talking about
What BPG CAN do is force a certain level of shadows, vegetation, blood splatter, particle effects ect ON
This would help for multiple reasons.
1 it makes the game look better to outsiders and newbies and shadows and tall grass bring a new element to game play
2. It allows people with PC's built In the last 7 years to NOT be at a visual disadvantage if they want to run the game in pretty mode while streaming/youtubing
The game looks totally different with the right settings
As a few people have mentioned our plan is to first fix the game's performance issues which primarily are due to a lack of properly using a computer's resources. Multi core support, upgrade or move away from directX, 64-bit process is essentially my understanding of the pieces we need to implement(I'm not a programmer but this is what I've understood at a high level needs to be done).
Right now graphics isn't our concern until we can address these performance areas. In addition we will need to build a modern pipeline of tools to input assets into the game as the current tools are massively outdated. This is why at this time we can't just ask the community or do competitions to get assets in. They need to be created and stored in old very specific formats and then exported through an extension, etc etc. We can continue at this time to add in a few new assets as we've done with staves, portals and several other assets as needed while we work in the background on these blocking tasks to a graphics overhaul.
We have been looking into what's needed for all of this a bit as we go but beyond getting a basic pipeline for new assets in the current system it hasn't taken a higher priority yet. Post launch once we get a few key features in and expand our development resources we'll be able to really push on these larger overhaul tasks on the inner workings in the graphics engine and also AI.
There is absolutely nothing modern about the workflow required for graphics in Darkfall. No matter how powerful the tools that are available today are, we cannot use them. At least not at this time.
Yeah, usually my interaction with friends who havent played Darkfall, goes like this:
I get all hyped and jacked up on remembering the good times.
I link my friend some DF vids - "hey check this out, this is the game I was telling you about. 5 years of this trumps my 17 years in UO and even more in CSGO etc. Best video gaming experience ever, no contest."
Him: "ok cool I'll watch now
*20 mins later*
Him: "LOL, wtf is this shit. Did you make this in college or something? Is it on Android"
Hes being funny, while conveying a solid point.
It's a tough game to sell with that approach. Really gotta get into the game to truly connect with it. After that, you're gonna need a surgical procedure if you want to forget it... :/
Oh well. Hopefully the game makes it to the point where all you gotta do is link just one video, the first and last video a new player would ever need to see to have them racing to download it. I think it could still be achieved in its current state.
That's why this launch needs to be a huge success. Then you guys can afford to spend more hours hopefully reaching these sort of goals!
I made a post on a MMO Forums yesterday and about 1k people viewed it and there were exactly 10 comments before it was closed. 100% ( I'm not exaggerating ) of the comments was people trashing the game because of the graphics. However I understand graphics can't be the main priority atm and will have to wait until later in the games development to be addressed and if that is the case then I think future patches need to focus on adding interactive content as described by the post I quoted.
PvP content is useless to new players most of the time because atm the server is 80% vets and for new players to even be able to compete they need to firstly, lvl a character for 1 - 2 months (boring) then they need to learn how to actually pvp for another 3 - 6 months before they can even compete. Nobody is going to stick around for that and I speak from being the SG of one of the so called "noobie" clans during beta, Drow and actually seeing a fair few first time Darkfall players becoming bored and going inactive.
The only fun PvP content that exists for new players is Pvping other new players (rarely happens) and Duelling. Sieges, Sea Towers and villages aren't usually fun for freshies because if your the clan that's taking 1 day old - 3 month old fresh players to these events usually your the clan getting dunked by the Vets. I see a lot of Vets crying about late game PvP content and I don't think that's needed anywhere near as much as early game content in general that gets freshies hooked and gives them something fun to do while they grind / catch up to the rest of us. So far the only content like this I've seen BPG propose is the Trade Vendors and if you guys can pull that off and make it work I think that's a good start which can be expanded on down the road.
P.S sorry for wall of text. Also I appreciate the work BPG have done so far and I would like to thank you guys.
It's not about bias for me. It's about looking at it objectively and seeing that the graphics take longer to work on than other core features and will have almost no impact on player retention compared to new features and polished mechanics/sandbox tools. Time invested isn't worth for the minimal gains in that regard, it either needed to be done first or take a massive backseat until everything else is in place. Like you just said npe needs to be great and the game needs more depth and features.
I want the game to succeed too.
The people who complain about a games graphics aren't going to play it anyways. The only way to retain competent people is to improve the game no the looks of it. Everyone was new to this game at one point and I doubt there was anyone that jumped into it thinking these graphics look amazing.
I don't think anyone is saying that people will play only for the graphics. The argument is that if the graphics were better then more people would TRY the game out. If they don't try how will they know if they will like the mechanics or not.
Every time i try and get people into this game they either never give it a chance due to the graphics, or give up when they do give it a chance because the grind (way better than it used to be... no more bloodwalls lol).
While I could care less about graphics, as most players here don't care, many potential new players might. If the game is to retain new players it needs things that not only current and old do vets want. Performance needs be priority, and while graphics may not be number 1 they do need to be addressed.
Yah, sadly a lot of videos don't do the game justice, and most outsiders or potential new players wouldn't get interested in the game by watching them.
I'm a terrible player and never had a max character in do or uw, but the game was always fun. It's hard to convey why the game is fun, and the rush you get in a full loot pvp game, and sadly people that never give it a chance to due to graphics will never get the experience it.
All I'm saying is that after trying it out they may like it because of the combat, sieges, cities, and more, but they may never test it out in the first place due to the arbitrary gate is the graphics (they don't really matter, but alot of gamers won't try the game no matter how good the game is due to themy being very dated).
We need to find a way to get players into the game and having fun, and wanting to pay for the game, even if they at first were turned off by the graphics.
I Believe a free trial of some sort and a good marketing campaigne would help people overlook the graphics. We need to get potential players actually in the game even before they pay for it or they might never try it. 10 dollars ain't shit, but alot of people still won't give it a chance if there's any doubt it will be bad, especially with dates graphics.
Lastly, alot of people have heard of Darkfall and it's many failures over the years... they really need to emphasize that it's a new team running the show and that it's a slightly different darkfall.
I perfectly understand where Jonah is coming from with this thread. His conclusions are rooted in objective observation and empirical experience, which is more than many here can make claim to. So, if an overhaul of the graphics were indeed possible, whenever that time would come, I very much agree it would be a great boon to the franchise.
However, with that said, and speaking in all brutal honesty: As it currently stands, I believe a graphic overhaul is actually the last thing Darkfall needs. Why? Because Darkfall Online, even 8 years and 3 iterations later, yet remains utterly devoid of a meaningful game world, utterly devoid of a meaningful sandbox experience, and remains a game akin to nothing more than a rinse/repeatable survival of the fittest sim. I'm referring to all iterations.
Darkfall is a "world" which boasts nothing more than an abundance of wolves, with whatever "mechanics" in place to shepherd the sheep being either laughably ineffectual or flatly nonexistent. This is even evidenced ad nauseam in all Darkfall forums; what is discussed, and the way we discuss it. There is, in fact, quite literally nothing even for the sheep (or wolves, for that matter) to do in the game besides grind, farm for PVP, engage in PVP, and rinse-repeat. It's actually almost absurd beyond belief when you think about how vast and rich the world of Agon is, and yet the gameplay, the game experience, when boiled down to its essence, resembles nothing more than an advanced, vastly oversized arena. Again, I refer to all versions.
There are two ways, as I see it, to cultivate and retain a playerbase for our prized but dubious franchise. The first being the path of trying to appeal to the "masses", with things like a prioritized graphic overhaul, cash shop swag, social media presence fraught with desperate platitudes to appeal to the "kids", changes meant to offend the least amount of people possible, and so on. The second being the path of keeping our heads down and actually focusing on making good game, whatever the cost. A game with a meaningful sandbox, which, when finally done properly, will, of its own merit, generate infinite "advertisement" we covet so much, via positive word of mouth and youtube videos alone, showcasing those positive experiences. My money, if I were a betting man, would be on the latter approach.
Personally speaking, and please do not take this as an affront to whatever YOU personally believe, because we all have our right to subjectivity, but I personally have less than zero interest in ANY Darkfall launch right now. Why? Because I've done it before. We all have. And what is any version of Darkfall right now but the same utter meaningless shell of a world with a yet, 8 years and counting, completely nonexistent sandbox. Improved only by a reduced grind, improved UI, and a bit better PVE and crafting.
I do not say this to be negative. I say this with the exact opposite intention. I say this because I lament what this game is so close to always being yet never is. I just hope one iteration truly realizes, and subsequently acts upon said realization, in the only way which actually matters, before it's truly too late. I again, refer to all iterations.
However, in reference to BPG's iteration alone: I genuinely wish your launch, and future of your game, such as it is, the best of luck and success moving forward. I hope to perhaps one day try it in earnest.
I might be streaming this bruh
The main things are the ease of use and a meaningful alignment system.
Games default hotkeybinds should be reconsidered as well to make them more intuitive so not as much remapping is necessary.
Things like automatically bringing out harvesting tools when you click a tree or whatever are HUGEE when it comes to average joe blow trying to work out whats going on.
Add as many ease of use and UI updates as possible and people who are brand new aren't going to be frustrated trying to play a clunky game.
Then if you can make the allignment system work so that blues can go farm together and que up for dungeons and have reasons to work together rather then just a huge FFA and everyone griefing people as much as possible.
It should be hard to be red in this game, if you're red and you go near npc cities it should be a huge group of blues trying to chase you down and gank you not the other way around.
People don't play 16bit, MUD, ASCII or old school games for the graphics, they play them because they are fun and have good content. If they are really looking for a hardcore mmofps they would try the game regardless of the graphics.
They should just spend all their resources on improving the game with frequent content and fixes. It would be nice to get a graphic update but only if it doesn't impact the development of the game.
Yeah because they have already played those games.. how many new players do you think go and play those? Not many.
look how popular runescape is and albion has a decent population great graphics
Why can't you add it for the people who don't have shit computers and leave the default at what it is now?
Potential unfair advantage? IDK being able to see opponenets further away for some where others are like da fuq. (Jus guessing hurr)