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The economy sucks.

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Scrubby Bear, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. Liverbest Gibs

    Liverbest Gibs Spellgazer
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    Sailing to all the sea villages to cap them is hours and hours. You could probably just make more gold per hour at a 400 gold per kill mob spawn.
     
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  2. Tuloth

    Tuloth Infernal
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    This would still only be 15k/hr. Unless somehow I missed villages starting to tick twice an hour? The 30k/hr thing was obviously over embellishment, as that person would basically need to have every village on the map capped to do that.

    Village gold should be competitive, to encourage them to be a PvP hotspot.

    Someone had mentioned putting Deeds on an NPC vendor in cities, I actually really like this idea. Make the capital city Councillor sell them, or perhaps make a new "Real estate" NPC. Instead of Deeds, have them sell a lease, and when you use the lease on the plot, it's yours for 30 days. Instead of having to pay taxes, you need to use a new lease on it later down the line. Housing taxes should be much higher than they are, but collected less frequently. This allows you to make enough gold in the 30 days to purchase a new lease (or have one purchased for you).

    Obviously, this idea could be refined or modified as needed, but it seemed like a decent starting block.

    Another thought I had for a more player driven economy was Work Orders. Allow players to request a "Work Order" at an NPC in towns, and any crafter can go up and pick this task up (assuming they have the skill for what was requested). Instead of receiving the raw mats they receive a "work order" item (to prevent them from just taking the resources and running). Take this to the appropriate crafting station, and begin crafting by double click on the work order. 0% chance of fail, and no skill ups while crafting, but when you turn in the work order, you get a reward in increased skill ups relative to having just done the crafting with your own mats. Maybe a monetary reward? balance as necessary.

    Spit balling ideas here.
     
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  3. Ford Prefect

    Ford Prefect Frostjarl
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    Is 30k for 500 ticks if you count the gold from the clan as well. But, there are not 30 500 tick villages in the game I don't think.
     
  4. Tuloth

    Tuloth Infernal
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    Right, forgot some other clans give their members the full gold. The clan half didn't even occur to me.
     
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  5. RedBull9

    RedBull9 Gravelord
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    Trading is definitely a big part of economy sucking. I've got plenty of things that could sell, but I don't feel like trading them.

    Plus now that my character is pretty viable, the biggest gold sink in my game play is dueling.
     
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  6. Not_Primetime

    Not_Primetime Infernal
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    It's a game of alliances so most economic transactions happen in a closed economy of alliances/clans members. This serves 2 purposes it ensure your clan/alliance crafters are doing the work and leveling their crafting skills. It ensures your alliances/clan members have access to the best gear and costs are controlled. It is a system created by the players and meets the needs of the players so they can go do stuff. What you propose is an artificial system that would force player into a system that doesn't meet their needs. The market in UW was a flop it never really met players needs and only certain goods were constantly traded there.

    I agree that there is not enough gold leaving the game most wealth even held by players goes towards sieges. The rate at which holdings are challenged, back to back, back to back, back to back is an indication that not enough gold is leaving economy.. The problem is too many materials come free as mob drops i.e. build mods is a big offender. Personally I have always thought a holding should be completely razed upon holding changing hands, with exception of enough housing to to accommodate a modest number of binds. Having to rebuild a city upon taking it would be a massive gold sink that is needed to drain the massive wealth that clans and alliances have.

    You should be asking for those things to be fixed instead of tying to force individual players into an economy works counter to what players need. The real problem is at the clan/alliance level of wealth not necessarily individual players wealth. You want players to be able to obtain gear easily so they can go do stuff like challenge holdings. The gold sinks need to be on the "doing things" and not putting up obstacles making it harder to do "to do things". Salvaging would be useless it will be just at it was in UW. It was much easier to and cost/time effective to buy a pickax and mine ore than it was to "pay for a chance" to get wood, leather, or ingots. You can always try and write code that forces a behavior but people will always finds ways to avoid it. As long as there are other means of obtaining what you need, your wasting time and effort trying to force a behavior through code and diverting development resources from things that are really needed like content. You know, like stuff to do.
     
  7. onslaught

    onslaught Black Knight
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    It takes too long to do basic shit in the game.
     
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  8. Lord Assirak

    Lord Assirak Goblin Warrior
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    I'm just now hopping into this discussion but isn't a major complaint about the game the cost of a gear bag is too much and people don't like pvping because of that? Then this thread essentially is on the polar opposite saying that gold needs higher value and weapons/armor needs more value. What is going to please you goons :p

    So instead of having raw materials on NPCs, why not have high crafted weapons (at their lowest roll on damage) vendored around the world. Kind of normalizes the playing field and still benefits crafters if you want that fine edge over the competition. Plus, this would be a big money sink for anyone who has oodles of cash pouring out of their bank. Can also compensate and make the crafting grind higher/longer (since I don't think crafters can be satisfied by this game... make the grind longer?... IDK what you want)

    Also maybe make a greater array of staffs in the game? Everyone loves the BB at max level or cobrastaff, but is it possible to make other casting speeds viable other than buff staffs?
     
    #68 Lord Assirak, Sep 27, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  9. Not_Primetime

    Not_Primetime Infernal
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    Why have vendors when you can get those same weapons and armor as mod drops for PvP? How many armor sets and weapons have you purchased from the NPC vendors in starter cities when you leveled up. I never had to. Clans have lower tier armor for free for noobies and most starter mobs drop gear. Mats are easy to get player crafted gear is superior in damage, damage reductions, and durability. It is very easy and cheap to get a set of Full Plate, as it should be.
     
  10. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    It takes between 30-40 minutes of hitting iron nodes and smelting just to make a single low end plate/scale destroyer armor set. This doesn't include the gold or leather. It also doesn't include regs, potions, a mount, arrows, ect.

    It might be 'easy' to get mats in that you stare at a node and click one time, but it sure as fuck isn't 'easy' in the greater context. Its only really easy with super low populations, zero competition for nodes and a mine and grove for every 3 active players. The time investment alone takes it out of the 'easy' realm and into the 'afk mining alt' or the 'shoot yourself in the head trying to do it active' realm.

    If it was really so 'easy to get' mats, people would be selling the shit dirt cheap. Even now, in a extremely low population beta that had for a time supercharged mines its difficult to buy mats for anything but insane prices and even then the quantities are not all that great.
     
  11. Kras Treetall

    Kras Treetall Akathar
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    100% player driven economy wins. I have been trying for years to convince this bunch of idiots that they NEED other people in this game besides the .01% of the gamers that are just pvp'ers. The pvp'ers cant see beyond the end of their nose. The people that need resources will still get those same resources as before they just have to pay ACTUAL PRICE of what they are worth. Not what some npc sells them for in an endless supply. One thing I can tell ya, these idiots would rather get their almost free reagents from and endless supply and let the game fail than allow other players to provide them with those resources. I can assure you it will fail as is because it has already been proven that this game fails if it is solely dependent upon the elite pvp'ers to support it.
     
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  12. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    UO wants a word with you.
     
  13. Kras Treetall

    Kras Treetall Akathar
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    This game is already the best pvp game ever invented, by like 100 fold. Depending on just those pvp'ers to make it succeed is insanity.

    I can't even listen to anybody say the game needs a gold sink when you get houses out of chaos chests, I mean REALLY????

    House rent is so small that it is totally insignificant. May as well be zero.

    But you people would rather yell that you need a gold sink than have a living breathing world with thousands of people in it. You can't give up that convenience.

    The masses(sheep)need to be able to supply EVERY need in the game, NOT Npc vendors.
     
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  14. Not_Primetime

    Not_Primetime Infernal
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    Living in clan cities I have never had an issue getting mats. If I can't get all of what I need someone in the clan/alliance sells them cheaper than market price. Even after NA1 launch at the height of population it was not hard. The mining of ore is way faster than before.

    I be very happy if RoA reaches and maintains 2000 subs that would be success in my opinion. That is hardly enough population to cause a shortage. It's not a mainstream genre that with attract thousands of concurrent players. It's not like a major portion of the players that quit DFO will come back. I know more than 60-70% of the people that I played with (clan wise) at NA1 launch are NEVER EVER coming back to this game no matter what BPG does.

    All the node rates are configurable if it does get critical population and mats are scarce then they just up the rate. There is not a finite number of mats. I haven't had to harvest regs or make arrows since the 1st week. I get a steady supply from mob drops. I do have to make potions from time to time but that is because the potion drop rate is not great on the mobs I've been hitting. Mounts I've got plenty of mounts. I do most of my own crafting except for high armor and weapons.

    As for the population potential that will make mats scarce I don't see it happening. The server location is an issue for a lot people and me as well. I get 110+ ping now with no one playing. Especially when it comes to the slideshow during large scale events. I will give it a try at launch but if I'm going to have to PvP against people on the east coast with 50 ping then I doubt I play past my free month. Until everyone's ping is about the same they will lose subs fast. That's just the reality of a competitive full loot PvP game.
     
  15. Lord Assirak

    Lord Assirak Goblin Warrior
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    So basically people are complaining that the money in the game will become inflated, which is true. Once you've bought and built every city up to max and meditated to max, you will have essentially no more use for gold other than trade. That gold isn't leaving the economy but simply switching hands. Eventually there will be all this gold and nothing to do with it. IMO I think regs on vendors is a seriously necessary thing for this game. That's why I recommend potentially putting higher level weapons on vendors too so that way the economy always has a balance point to be "pvp viable" as far as gear is concerned. Selling raw mats at a vendor removes crafting/gathering from the game and ruins those players sandbox-ness. I'm not sure if anybody is on board, but the economy the way it is is sorta screwy.
     
  16. Kras Treetall

    Kras Treetall Akathar
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    How about flattening every city that is won in a siege? There is a huge resource sink.

    People should not be able to sit back and wait on a clan to do all the work and then just take it from them so they can now instantly teleport across the world anyway.

    Make people have to build it from the ground up if they want it so bad.

    There is you a gold sink. Now get rid of them stupid Npc vendors!!!
    --- Post updated ---
    How about flattening every city that is won in a siege? There is a huge resource sink.

    People should not be able to sit back and wait on a clan to do all the work and then just take it from them so they can now instantly teleport across the world anyway.

    Make people have to build it from the ground up if they want it so bad.

    There is you a gold sink. Now get rid of them stupid Npc vendors!!!
    --- Post updated ---
    Sorry for the double post. Internet quit and I hit post twice.
     
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  17. Lord Assirak

    Lord Assirak Goblin Warrior
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    With this mentality, clans will depend on zerging so hard and getting the most # of people they can in order to win and hold a city. What happens when they lose and a town is completely destroyed and have to rebuild? They quit the game. The population decreases and no town ever stays built. I don't think this is the proper approach especially with how much people already complain about the gathering system.
     
  18. Kras Treetall

    Kras Treetall Akathar
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    The people that complain about the gathering system complain because that is not their play style. Yet the people that enjoy the gatherer/merchant/crafter/trader style of play do not play this game because they find it impossible to compete with Npc vendors. Who in their right mind would enjoy gathering mandrake when they have to sell it for 1.5 gold because the stupid Npc vendor has an endless supply for 2 gold each.

    Nobody is asking the wolves to look at nodes all day. I only ask that they quit squeaking so loud about letting real people provide the service at true market value instead of being so selfish as to be content with only a handful of player just as long as they don't have to give up any convenience.
     
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  19. Lord Assirak

    Lord Assirak Goblin Warrior
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    So end game with the economy and no vendors would suck... There needs to be more products that soak our money away to allow things to not inflate above the (no longer there vendor value)... If there's nothing to sink gold into other than player market, it'll inflate even faster. It's like balancing your internal expenses with your foreign expenses. Treat anything you sink gold into the game like vendors/village rent/crafting mats/meditation. Those options need to be more vast if you don't want somebody to sell mandrake at 40g a pop just because end game, there's nothing to spend money on other than other players(since vendors are removed). That'll just make the richer richer and the people starting off desperately poorer and more likely to quit. I can already play that situation out after a year of gameplay with no vendors: "hell I can't buy mandrake for 40 each in order to level air magics and I want air magics damnit..." /quits game...

    And when the market inflates, BPG has to increase mob gold drop rates to compensate. And then the game is endlessly spiraling upwards in inflation... Just like most games do when expansions come out (WoW for example). There need to be more gold sinks other than just a player population. Constant trades of gold with nowhere to dump results in mad inflation... I'm not sure if I've made taht point 20x yet... but yeah... yeahhhhhhhh
     
  20. Invincible Execution

    Invincible Execution Varangian Warthane
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    Agreed. All playstyles should be catered to. I think that if players controlled the market the game would be better for everyone. Assuming there is a convenient way to trade with other players, mandrake would be easily attained and players may even hunt mandrake professionally from monsters or focus on herb gathering. As for gold sinks, there are many better gold sinks than buying regs from a vendor.
     
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