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The gap at this stage

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jakobmillah, May 27, 2017.

  1. Nef

    Nef Ghost

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    It's so difficult to appeal this game to the masses in my mind, primarily because of it's full loot aspect and its unfriendly new user experience. I had minimal expectation and or hope for true new player retention. It's just not an easy game...
     
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  2. ZeuZ

    ZeuZ Crypt Guard

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    There are 3 power gaps in the game when it comes to a vet vs new players. By far the most obvious is experience, then character and lastly the gear. BPG only really has the power to close the gap on one of them which is the character. Increasing exp gained across the board on everything has zero effect on a vet player, but a prolific impact to a noob.
     
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    #302 ZeuZ, May 31, 2017
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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  3. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    The books will raise your stats as well as your melee/archery mastery, but not the base melee/archery skill.
     
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  4. Nef

    Nef Ghost

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    Yeah DFO Vet here, but didn't play a single day of RoA Beta... Wish I had known that when I got 50 in all my stupid melee special attacks (Before having mastery)

    Fucking waste.... Now I'll be stuck at like 20 mastery when most get 56-60 just using skill manuals...
     
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  5. vehementi

    vehementi Goblin Warlord

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    That's an exaggeration, you don't get to 60 mastery from skill books. But the mastery does come fast from leveling anyway. But you can always spend unlimited money to raise mastery via those books now. And yeah, it's dumb that you can't raise the base with the books.
     
  6. Nef

    Nef Ghost

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    Odd person in my guild hit 75 GS, bought mastery.

    Leveled Disabling blow to 75
    PA to 75
    and WW to 75

    Using manuals, landed at 50+ mastery. Without swinging a sword once....
     
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  7. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    You definitely get a lot from the books, but you have to have the blanks to be able to do it. You can do every single weapon skill to 75 for quite a lot of stats and mastery points. Very expensive though.
     
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  8. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
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    completly unnecessary imo.
     
  9. vehementi

    vehementi Goblin Warlord

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    Oh yes if they needlessly went to 75 in those skills sure. But again, you can now go to 100 and get even more mastery! Hurray!
     
  10. Nef

    Nef Ghost

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    How so, isn't 75 disabling blow a 14 second disable? lol
     
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  11. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    Well, the stat gain with the mastery gain makes it worth it. I got like 7+ dex from just getting disabling shot to 75. Took my Sharpshooter up quite a bit too.

    The melee scrolls give you str/vit/qui.
     
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  12. Ark Hemmel

    Ark Hemmel Goblin Scout

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    There are a few specific areas of the grind that can be improved. Some of my problems with the grind (and I imagine other people's) probably have a lot more to do with feels than reals. Do I really need 100 GS mastery? Is 75 a good stopping point? 56 perhaps? What does this nebulous skill actually do. It's hard to give solid feedback when it seems like most of the mechanics are based on guesswork. Nevertheless I will try.

    What doesn't work

    A) Melee mastery still feels a tad too slow, though this actually could be a good thing if say the last 40 points of melee mastery only end up adding a tiny amount of damage. Then it just becomes something for perfectionists to work on that isn't really neccessary. But again, I don't actually know the numbers on any of this. The mythical "56" breakpoint didn't seem to do jack shit, is there a source on this or anything? I really do not have a grasp on how damage in DFO works and am speaking from ignorance here.

    B) The failure of scrolls is that it's much slower and incredibly boring, but much more cost efficient to simply use the spells to kill things. I believe this could be addressed by simply making the spells level quicker (they still level really slow) and significantly reducing the gold cost of damage spell scrolls. As an extreme example: Eye rot is like, 800g per scroll I think? I'd rather just spam it for 2 regs thanks, even though it's boring as hell. The scroll system seems to be designed to incentivize people to only use the scrolls on "scroll-only" spells, and I think this is a miss. Levelling spells is legit the "no-life" part of the grind.

    C) The upper end of a magic school grind feels excessively slow. It felt like 90-100 necro took me two days of bolting stuff. This is unneccesary as perfectionists can work on intensifies if they want to do an extended grind, the base school doesn't have to be nuts.

    What does work

    Stats. I have been quite pleased with the stat gain rate, though it seems to be tilted a bit too far towards harvesting over farming mobs for str/vit. Dex/Qui from archery and Int from magic are all a totally reasonable speed, and the frontloading seems to be working great, as far as I can tell without real numbers to look at.

    Archery, as always, is a very pleasant and reasonable grind, imo.

    Magic schools in general are also at a great speed, except for those last few points as I mentioned.
     
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  13. vehementi

    vehementi Goblin Warlord

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    No I know they do, but he's saying they just poof leveled their shit up a tiny bit with scrolls and BAM 60+ mastery. Except they leveled the 3 skills unnecessarily high (due to frontloading 55ish is definitely good enough for those). Of course you can/should keep spending scrolls on them so that you get stats and more mastery, but even going past 50-60 mastery is not the best use of your money unless you're already done with all of your spells/schools/etc.
    --- Post updated ---
    > The mythical "56" breakpoint didn't seem to do jack shit, is there a source on this or anything? I really do not have a grasp on how damage in DFO works and am speaking from ignorance here.

    The 56 comes from the frontloaded graphs. It's not a breakpoint. It's just that previously, people out of thin air invented that having 75 out of 100 in a skill is "good enough" because you're at 75% effectiveness. Well, in ROA, they frontloaded the curve, so there's diminishing returns and you actually get 75% effectiveness at only 55-56ish skill. Going from 55 to 100 in the skill costs 3-4x the mats and gets you just another 33%, not worth it for a long time. And note the 33% is not really 33% for almost everything, since a fireball doesn't do 0 damage at level 1.
     
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