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The harsh reality that BPG knew nothing about their playerbase

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ferris, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. Ferris

    Ferris Goblin Scout

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    BPG, I had a lot of hope for this game and was a super fanboi but it is clear you have absolutely no idea what type of game you are working on based on the topics in the design discussion forum.

    As a background I played dfo since day one, my original forum account was dated back to 2002. In dfo and dfuw I was very much pvp oriented and had the attitude the game was all about pvp and had the very hardcore mentality. This go around I brought several new players with me and met lots of new players along the way as I chose to do the farming and crafting life. Everyone I brought to the game and the new players I put on my friends list all quit.

    There are huge lists and reasons on the forums why people think everyone left and while many of those things are issues that could be improved on they are not the core reason why people quit. The harsh reality is they quit because of our beloved PvP.

    -DF is unique that it brought mmo and fps players together into one game. Both type or players have very unique needs from a game.
    -mmo players are used to leveling and character progression. They want something to work towards wether it's their character, crafting, a house, etc.
    -the fps type player is focused on and constantly searching for pvp and would prefer to have it instantly

    Without a proper alignment system to discourage most random PKing the wolves ate all the sheep and now those wolves are starving.

    -The character grind is not bad, it's the fact that people got killed over and over while trying to grind.
    -The gear grind isn't that bad, it's that people got killed over and over while trying to farm to get their gear
    -Housing turned into another grind that people died over and over while trying to harvest and get.

    The vast majority of players do not want pvp anywhere, anytime. The players who do want pvp everywhere all the time tend to be the better players and even they have their own class system. Most of the top players claim they want fair fights and tell everyone to git gud or go home... but I'm going to let you in on the secret. The vast majority are completely full of shit and are only happy when winning fights. It's not about being fair it's about them being able to win. Most of them won't go out solo, they avoid players their same caliber, and mostly prey on hitting people at mob spawns. It's human nature.

    BPG, stop listening to the existing players... it's the players who left that hold the key to having a population in this game. Use your own critical thinking skills to asses what happened, stop listening to the existing community.

    Some ideas-
    -make a harsh alignment system that all but removes meaningless PKing (i.e. Stat loss/skilll loss like uo)
    -make pvp centered around a faction or guild war and not about killing random people at mob spawns
    -give the people who want instant pvp an arena with tons of features

    I have a lot more thoughts and ideas but I am reluctant to waste the time on deaf ears. If you want some real insight from a vet who has played both sides of the game and has lots of insight from players who quit hit me up with a pm and we can talk.

    You guys are heading down the path of making an arena game but the thing is... agon isn't an arena. This path you are heading down is futile, but gl.
     
  2. dinazoe

    dinazoe Goblin Warlord
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    "You guys are heading down the path of making an arena game but the thing is... agon isn't an arena. This path you are heading down is futile, but gl." -fenris

    agon isn't an arena, that's why its dead... :)

    Have fun playing a game where it takes 4 hours to find pvp, while i go play csgo/overwatch and instantly bang.
     
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  3. davick

    davick Goblin Warlord

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    The reality is players like you think you don't want an arena but, you actually do.

    If you didn't, you'd be elsewhere.

    You have some fantasy where instant travel, no grind, global banking equals a populated world with meaningful pvp. It doesn't exist without "tedium". So ignorant.
     
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  4. AzraelVII

    AzraelVII Skeleton Archer

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. Ferris

    Ferris Goblin Scout

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    Lol who are you talking to? Cause if you are aiming that at me you apparently can't read.
     
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  6. The Red King

    The Red King Black Knight
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    I told them this at the start about having harder penalties for being red and the fan bois pounded it saying they shoudnt be restrictions in a pvp game.

    Welcome to what you turned the game in to a dead game.

    Pvp should be wars / factions / village gray areas/ sieges not killing the bluebie who is learning the game.
     
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  7. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    The age of tedius games is gone and over. No one wants to play a tedius game anymore, they wanna log in and have fun.

    You're right grinding shit mobs and waiting to be ganked isn't fun, neither is getting zerged down.

    Harsher penality won't do jack shit, a safe zone will though.

    And wtf are you on about. Top players have fun when winning yes, but only when it's an even numbered fair as can be fight. They wanna be better than the other guy, the only way to achieve that is to win on equal grounds.
     
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  8. AzraelVII

    AzraelVII Skeleton Archer

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    dude... please be realistic lol
     
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  9. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Arena is realistic. Why do you think you see wager duels happen?
     
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  10. The Red King

    The Red King Black Knight
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    It's about keeping a population. If you think people are going to stay when your 8 years of Darkfall experience wrecks then in 2 seconds your wrong.

    The pvpers should be able to pvp and the crafters / pvers should be able to do that.

    Harsher restrictions for being red - stat loss or vitae penalty. This way this who want to pvp will and those who don't won't. = more people playing = more patches = alive game
    --- Post updated ---
    An arena of a hunger games island would be amazing and you would be able to stream it which would bring population. You would need to remove all names though and the mini map so you don't have people teaming up.
     
  11. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Harsher restrictions aren't necessary when theres a safe zone. Think blue city, only able to be attacked when at war with.
     
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  12. AzraelVII

    AzraelVII Skeleton Archer

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    1. you didn't mention the arena in your first statement...

    2. we see when wager duels happen because the same 4 people post them on the forums weekly :smirk:.
     
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  13. Ferris

    Ferris Goblin Scout

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    The mentality is to have fair fights... but the only definition I ever see of a fair fight comes down to numbers on each side. The fact is skill and gear are part of the equation of fair fights not just numbers. A competent player wants fair numbers against a non competent player.... that's not fair lol. Why do you think all the fps arena type games try and have a ranking system?

    99% of players do not want fair fights. This is why most the vets nutcupped with other vets and steamrolled other people? They didn't want a fair fight they want to win. It's just human nature and this game has nothing to discourage it.
     
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  14. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    You don't get better by making it easy and zerging, you stay shit tier, something all the fucking noobs fail to realize.

    1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 those are fairfights where player skill determines the outcome. WTF are you on about, if you're shit, you're shit, get better.

    A bunch of good players make a clan, and people Q.Q because they aren't as good as them? How about people learn the game and try to beat them, because if all the good players in this game got into the same clan and zerged all the noobs out like the noobs attempt to do to good players, they'd fucking quit from getting shitcanned so hard.
     
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  15. Prodigy_Burn

    Prodigy_Burn Dire Zombie

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    This
     
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  16. Ferris

    Ferris Goblin Scout

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    You don't get it, just like BPG and all the other people who actually want to make df an arena. I don't know you personally so maybe you enjoy a low population. But your mentality is exactly why the game died in less than 3 months. And I can say this because I used to have your attitude in dfo and uw. I saw the other side this go around.

    You tell the shit players to get better or leave and guess what... they left.

    Have you ever stopped to think that the game is dead because the average player (and I don't mean just skill level) stopped playing? And that maybe you and your opinion doesn't reflect the average player?
     
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  17. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    You ever stop to think that maybe if the new player didnt need to grind for 10000 different things they could focus on actually getting better at the game and not getting shitcanned? The endgame of this game as is, is PVP, it's the only reason to do anything in game, and it's the best thing the game has going for it. Everything else is there to supplement the PVP. All they want to do is make it easier on new players to acclimate to the game and become comfortable with the PVP and PVE and not have to worry about grinding abilities on top of stats, on top of gear on top of player skill
     
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  18. Vector

    Vector New Member
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    Finally someone I can agree with. I may be the minority but I enjoy "the grind", leveling the skills as I require them, gives me something to aim for rather than something sparkly i don't care about (which is found in higher populated *insert whichever mmo here*).

    I like these suggestions more than the "reduce the grind" posts I normally read.

    With this arena idea, would it be beneficial to have an area that characters learning the game could duel others without fear of item loss to learn skills (maybe with the option of setting wagers), but keep the character and item "grind" the same so they can apply those skills in the pvp zones?
     
    #18 Vector, Aug 4, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
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  19. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. ThiefGarrett

    ThiefGarrett Wildtribe Mage

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    None of us minded the grind FFS, that's why we stuck with DF for 4 years through all of AVs bullshit. The casual change wasn't for the few of us that still exist, it was for the thousands of potential customers that will help bring life into this game. "I didn't mind the grind" Well no shit, if you did you would have quit with the rest of them.
     
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