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The Real Question.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sean Connery, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Sean Connery

    Sean Connery Fire Elemental
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    Here is the real question. What makes so many people play the games like Wow, Albion and any other mmo with a high pop? It has loot on kill like DF. What does it have that DF does not that draws people in? What ever that is let's look at how we can add it. We have something none of them have fully skill based pvp none of this tab targeting nonsence and no top down point to click moving. We have a vast open world we just need to put more stuff in it.
     
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  2. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
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    things to do besides pvp
     
  3. Statusquo

    Statusquo Goblin Warlord
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    it doesn't have a terrible New Player experience like darkfall does. they also do a good job protecting the sheep from the wolves.
     
  4. sup

    sup Akathar
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    Yup, pretty much these two things exactly:

     
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  5. Nat

    Nat Shadow Knight
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    They all have a good and tight gameplay loop. Darkfall has gameplay loops but they are loose and easily broken by defeat and tedium.
     
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  6. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Akathar

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    there isn't any pvp, what we have is roaming and bothering people who grind
     
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  7. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Community Manager
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    Both of these are big reasons why, which is why our new internal road map (which we will be presenting soon) focuses in on them.
     
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  8. l0st exile

    l0st exile Crypt Guard

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    lol. why didn't you accomplish these tasks in your 3 month alpha... 9 month beta or even within 3 months at launch?
     
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    #8 l0st exile, Sep 11, 2017
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  9. rikilii

    rikilii Celestial

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    Did it ever occur to you that this might be the reason they dont like DF?

    I'm sure that the difficulty level is s huge turn off to must players.

    The real question is why so many people who generally like df gameplay would want to play those games instead.

    All i can think of right now is that when you log in, there's literally nothing to do but grind or roam around looking for pvp that you are not likely to find.
     
    #9 rikilii, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  10. CottonEyeJoe

    CottonEyeJoe Crypt Guard

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    The real reason is value. People feel they are getting their value out of the new games. Because it has a script you pretty much have to follow. Do this quest, then that quest, work your rank up yadda yadda, quest quest. Quest for this item, quest for that item. Ohh new level, new quest. DF its like plop here ya go. Here is a newb weapon, some shit quests to understand the game, and ohh some maxed out PK will come rape you and take all your shit in less than 5 seconds, when he needs NONE of it. But its a fun game, keep suffering! You'll get to see the fun at some point. After the 30th time they get jumped killing a useless shit mob, they say fuck this.
     
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  11. kilrath81

    kilrath81 Black Knight
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    Or worse yet anything you can really do can be completely undone in seconds by someone else. Take eve online for instance. You have entire safe zones with decently profitable stuff to do. You can be killed there but it doesnt happen often because it is too tedious and doesnt provide enough incentive unless you are a blithering idiot in your tiny ship carrying way too much expensive shit. In Darkfall you can be killing Kobolds, some dude WILL kill you because it takes nothing away from him in reality, and he then takes your kobold gold and regs and goes about his merry day.

    The crafting system is a joke. Its way better in my opinion this last patch but these are still basically QOL changes for crafting. We need to have things to craft that would keep people playing. A lot of players would play this game if they felt they were needed for things other than loot pinatas and meat shields. Epic items that require many different new and neat activities to acquire and craft. Make the top tier gear blueprint only or something that you need these non pvp guys to get and sell. Make the blueprints come from activities that only those type of people would want to do as well as activities higher pvp tiered players would do to bring the two together.

    A true Opt in faction system is REQUIRED. At the very least we need that reason to PVP if we want to. Faction Vendors and Leader Boards and faction perks. Make lower populated factions gain more from victories than overpopulated ones to encourage people changing sides and keeping it balanced so one faction doesnt overpower the rest.

    Fix the housing system! allow us to upgrade our current plots for starters and then make all items placeable anywhere we want within reason. Why cant i choose to put up 9 paintings if i have the wall space? Why do i need to have a Large Villa to put beds in, Why do i have to have stuff in predefined areas? Allow people to collect and craft and create a space to call their own. Allow us to upgrade our bind slots in every house for some new item we get from the world somehow. Say a Bind Gem that we can get on any mob or in a chaos chest that is VERY rare. Allow us to double the houses bind spots, one spot at a time with these gems.

    We need safe raids for PVE with low chance at cool stuff, we also need Raids that are not safe but cant just be dumped on by johnny jackass as well with higher rewards. Make it hard to kill someone in dungeons. I dont understand why people feel entitled to go into a dungeon and in 30 seconds take from someone what they have earned in an hour. Make Dungeons that require waves to be cleared to advance or something. That way people cant just sneak in, They have to clear a spawn of mobs for a door to open or something. Make Dungeons interesting. Add Puzzles and mechanics to progressing through them with differing branches and put the loot at the end with no loot on mobs so that people dont farm in them constantly, they want to progress to the end to get the loot and then leave possibly going back in and doing it again. Make the amount of items and quality dropped based on the branch they took to clear the dungeon, The number of players that participated in the dungeon vs the default set amount (Dungeon calls for 5 we do it with 4 so we get an increased bonus or did it with 6 so our bonus is decreased) and the amount of time taken to complete it vs the default amount of time that is started when the party enters the dungeon(like participation bonus but based on a dungeon saying it needs 15 minutes to complete and being faster or slower than that). Make it a chest that we loot and have to roll on items. DO NOT ALLOW MOUNTS OR BOXES INSIDE OF THE DUNGEONS.

    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FIX THE GOLEMS OR SOMETHING! I spent hours farming Veilron and Neithal golems getting 1-2 rares off them. No one is selling hardly any and the ones that are want stupid amounts of money for rares. We shouldnt have to hope some afk alt didnt clear some mine and go hit it to get our rares. Put the rest of the golems to Selentine levels at least. Up the rare drops in Lawless zones on nodes about double for starters and see where that goes. I personally would love to see rares changed altogether and have a rare nodule or something. That way the different Golems would have more Nodules drop on them based on difficulty but we could smelt whatever ore we want out of the nodules. We could even have it set up with a gold sink so that Sele Ore is one nodule plus 250 gold, Veilron is one Nodule plus 500 Gold, Neithal one nodule and 750 gold and so on.

    Give holdings more meaning! Give them Choices! Fix the stale mechanics! Have certain holdings impart slight buffs that are given to a player based on where he is bound. Allow holdings to place any resource type in a resource slot with varying costs to build. Want a mine? cough up 700 Mods, Want a Farm? Cough up 75 Mods and give cities 2 or 3 slots and give hamlets 1. Add a Chest or something that collects taxes and opens every 2 hours for attack or something, if defended or uncontested the chest contents go into clan bank.

    Fix trade routes. They need to send you to different areas. They need to not have long ass timers. They really shouldnt have timers at all. Get people into the world riding around! Have one of 10 exits selected when the route is selected and allow us to buy all in instead of 500G at a time. Have a pop up that asks us how much gold we want to invest in increments of 1000 up to 10k. This press F. Press Escape, Click button, Press Escape, Press F bullshit needs to stop. Put the timer on the player instead of the vendor. Make it so a player can only run the trade route after completion after an 1-2 hours cooldown or something.

    Allow Seiges for Gold. Allow a clan to seige another clan and pick whether they want to take the holding or Wager/Ransom it. They choose a gold amount to be paid if they win the seige up to a max amount (say 50k for a hamlet and 100k for a city) that doesnt cost more than the war dec to drop so that we have more seiges. If the clan refuses the ransom then the conquerors can take the holding instead if won. If the clan accepts the ransom they then fight for the Wager/Ransom only. If the attackers lose the Defenders get the gold and Vice Versa. Then also keep the ability to just straight up seige for territory. Make a city raze itself to the ground when its conquered. EVERYTHING has to be rebuilt by the attackers if won. This way people who seige for territory also have to factor in the cost of building the city back up. This also means the defending clan will REALLY want to defend it since they cant just play the "Let them have it today our numbers arent good but we will reseige it in our TZ in a couple days" AND makes it so that if a clan is completely inactive it can be taken from them without the additional cost of shards and stones. Allow Clans to specify two four hour vulnerable times and allow the attackers to select a live time within those bounds and give the defending clan 24 hours to accept the wager if it is a wager seige.

    FIX BASICALLY FREE BOAT ASSET DAMAGE! Nothing worse than logging in and finding out a couple dudes in a boat and some cheap powder leveled your hamlet. Either allow defenses that destroy boats so that it takes a crew of repairers and cannoneers to inflict that damage causing the requirement to asset with a boat to raise from powder and one dude in a pinnace to 6 dudes in a brig with repair shards and powder. Or make it so that boats cant asset at all unless at war or something. Small deployable cannons need to be cheaper as well to allow easier capping of land holdings. One of the biggest conversations i have heard on whether to take a holding has been "But can we take it with boats?".
     
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  12. kingp43

    kingp43 Goblin Shaman
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    Nailed it, lol.

    and omg someone put kilrath in charge, I'd play that game
     
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  13. Harley Franklin

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    Should of all been done in alpha or Beta. Kinda stupid
     
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  14. Nerfsy

    Nerfsy Goblin Warlord

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    +10
     
  15. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
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    I'll bite.

    Lets start off straight out of the gate by saying that Darkfall has a limited population out of the gate.

    Most people who like MMORPG's, aren't huge fans of FPS games. Most people who like FPS games aren't fans of MMO's.

    Here's a diagram!:

    [​IMG]

    The bulk of Darkfall's players are in the intersect between the two major circles.

    The minor circle is less relevant now because it's a lot quicker to grind up a toon to become competitive now, but still, the time investment to play Darkfall is still greater than a lot of other games.

    Secondly, FPS players are more likely to be the kind of person who wants instant action. They want to log in, get a fight in 10 minutes and be in continuous fights for 2-3 hours, then log out. They also want to live out in the middle of nowhere where there's great mobs to farm so they get everything they need for 5 hours of PvP in 1 hour of PvP, then complain it takes more than 20 minutes to find a fight.

    The MMO player, tends to be happier with a lower level of action and will spend more time hitting mobs crafting, trading, exploring the world etc. They still want PvP they just don't want it constantly.

    These two types of player are at odds with each other unfortunately.

    Introduce portals so the instant-action type can get their PvP fix and the MMO/Sandbox gets frustrated in quit. Hence Portals were probably the biggest contributing factor to the rapid decline of DFO's population. People can deny that all they want, but it was.

    Then people throw out this term called "tedium".

    There's more than enough people in the game who are perfectly happy crafting, and doing little else, to supply every person on the server 10 times over. A single crafter could literally supply 100 players. But instead of letting 1 crafter supply 100 players, every second man and his dog wants Weapon Smith and Armor Smith Mastery, wants to be able to smelt Theyril Ore, make R60 bows and level engineering!

    You would think that all of "tedium" would encourage people to PAY OTHER PEOPLE to craft, but instead, people won't even pay cost price weapons/armor.

    So this pretty much removes any meaningful NON-COMBAT role from being filled by people who aren't particularly great at FPS games (or who have high ping, or just enjoy crafting).

    If people who aren't great at FPS games have nothing meaningful to do (supplying the server with subsidised weapons and armor is not meaningful), then simply put, there's no room for them in the game and they eventually quit.

    Don't like smelting? PAY SOMEONE TO DO IT.

    Don't like cutting wood? PAY SOMEONE TO DO IT.

    Don't like gathering? Try offering a decent rate for ore/timber instead of expecting people to gather for 6,000 gold an hour.

    Just don't come to the forums complaining about "tedium" when you won't even pay cost price for the things you want.

    People are frankly hilarious. They'll call people idiots for not farming high end mobs, then repeatedly spam trade with low-ball offers for the mats they need.

    I could go on for days, but I won't, but the last thing I'll mention is the fact that most modern games, from modern companies, employ the same design tactics that are used to keep people playing Pokie Machines.

    It's not the reward that keeps people playing. It's the expectation of reward. So sure if you like being treated like a fucking dog being rewarded for tricks, a lot of modern games are great!
     
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  16. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    I always play a sheep in most games, Darkfall forces you to be a wolf to make any progress and pvp gets old when the simplest way to win a battle is just get numbers.

    In SwToR I took Star Fighter pvp super seriously and basically everyone stops playing the game for PvP when your kicking ass every match if people see your good they avoid you.

    Darkfall needs a load of work done to even be taken seriously against the top MMOs
    Most of this work was already completed in UW, but since they lost the trust of the players by making skills hyper level and killed the old game not enough people wanted to support it.

    BPG is still mostly volunteer community workers. Until people take Darkfall seriously as Developers we probably wont see any serious developments in a short amount of time.

    As always I thank BPG for all the hard work they have done to Darkfall and hope that they continue making what ever progress they are willing to make so that the Darkfall brand continues its evolution.
     
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  17. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Long term character progression
    --- Post updated ---
    I mean, both of those things were your initial focus in your initial roadmap.
     
  18. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
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    We have an opt in faction system.

    They're called clans.
    --- Post updated ---
    There's plenty of players willing to protect sheep from wolves.

    The problem is the flock is much more dispersed than it was for DFO, because people level much faster and don't stick around new player areas very long.

    You used to be able to roll around Humanlands and get fights all day just killing people trying to kill noobs.
    --- Post updated ---
    Rare ore is supposed to be rare.

    If there's no one selling rare ores, then that says one of two things:
    1. No one is farming rare ores
    2. They're farming them but they're keeping it to themselves.
    So if 1. Go farm them yourself? This isn't a problem for devs to fix. If you really want those rares go and get them.

    But more likely, it's reason 2.

    So if people are keeping all these rares to themselves, either a) go and fight them for it. Or b) bid up the price of rares to entice people to sell to you. Or maybe even c) siege that mine off them so you get the rares. Yet again, NOT A PROBLEM that needs developer attention.

    And don't say some bullshit about "but but but but but they have better weapons than me." This is absolute bullshit because every day in trade there's people selling off bulk R50 and R60 weapons for waaaay below cost.

    People buying Selentine for 2k gp and selling a knightblade for... 2k gp?

    And if you happen to be online at a time where there isn't someone selling off bulk R50's or R60's at insane losses, then I don't know, do something absolutely crazy, like offering them cost +10% for weapons. You know? That little thing called "profit" that is supposed to give an incentive for people to produce things.

    That's how normal, real world economies work. If something isn't profitable, you stop producing it.

    I used to have a bank full of mats and try to find people to craft stuff for me. Now I just sell the mats and buy finished goods. That's saved me maybe $700 gold per R50 greatsword because the crafters are literally throwing in the gold and other mats for nothing.
     
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  19. TheosWanderer

    TheosWanderer New Member

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    Really? What does this game lack? Everything New Dawn is doing is the only way this game could survive. There's a reason vanilla darkfall failed, and the devs here made horrible decisions by taking away even more content outside of PvP. So we have essentially no content and new players have no protection.

    The only way for this game to survive is if they added arena or made it an arena game, such as players unknown battleground. We need actual content that incentivises the choices the devs have made, but they're not adding any.

    But we all know this won't happen since the devs here are essentially gamers 'donating' their time, as if this is a private server which it reminds me of everytime I play it. Just wait for the good version of this game to release with an actual professional team of devs.

    Because they're amateurs that wanted to rush and be first to release to cash in on the hype, we can all see how that played out.
     
  20. Shivs

    Shivs Crypt Guard

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    Mortal Online has kept limping along with a low population for longer than Darkfall was around because of two things I believe, an incredibly deep crafting system allowing new OP weapons to be still stumbled upon and a point based character build.

    Every few patches , mostly by accident from the devs point of view, a new meta would be discovered and players would retrain and regear to be competitive.

    A lot in the hope that this new meta would suit them better and they would kill more people than they did with the old.

    In DF, you don't evolve your in game character after a certain point, you just work on your own skill, playing a toon similar to everyone else's, hence the need for fast PVP and an active clan for duels.

    I am a poor player, but determined enough to keep practicing, though I would imagine I will stop playing if:

    I cannot find PVP
    My clan cannot offer duelling practice
    I accept I am just shit at PVP
    Or by some miracle I start easily beating everyone I meet.

    I don't have any magic bullet solution, perhaps a combination of all the suggestions in other threads will work.

    Or did UW have it right with more builds allowing players the hope/illusion they could compete if they found the right "class" ?