Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

The Relic System

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by MWTaylor, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Community Manager
    Staff Member BPG Representative Game Designer

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes Received:
    5,182
    The Relic System will be the driving force in creating diversity between players, providing an unlimited amount of customization options. The following is an overview of what this system will entail, and we want to preface by saying all the numbers, bonuses, drawbacks, and limitations provided are for example and to spark discussion.

    Relics Overview

    Relics are intended to be a new type of rare loot that will help drive diversity and take PvE to the next level. Relics are special items that drop off of monsters that players can attune to their character, providing bonuses and drawbacks to certain aspects of combat. You may have up to three relics attuned at any given time, and unlike most items in Rise of Agon, relics do not drop on death once attuned. This is important because they will serve as part of your build and play style, and some will be extremely rare.

    Relics are randomly generated and named, pulling from a massive pool of possibilities, and no two relics may ever be the exact same. Relics will come in five different rarities: Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic and Legendary. All monsters have a chance to drop relics, with the rarity that drops based on the difficulty of the monster. Mere goblins might only be able to drop Common and the occasional Uncommon or Rare relics, while champions or demons will tend to yield relics from higher tiers.

    Each relic has statistical bonuses and penalties which serve as passives for your character. The more rare the relic is, the greater the possible bonuses and penalties. The abilities each relic has is random, as are the bonuses and penalties, although they will be in a fixed range based on the stat in question and rarity of the relic. Hunting for relics will provide a great deal of excitement and create truly memorable moments, and will provide players with the never-ending goal of min-maxing their preferred style of play.

    Possible Relic Examples

    Common Relic
    • +4.03% Fire Damage
    • +2.04 Lightning Protection
    • +4.09 Archery Encumbrance
    • -2.11 Holy Protection
    Uncommon Relic
    • +5.91% Vampiric Touch Magnitude
    • +5.49% Greatsword Whirlwind Damage
    • -3.55% Archery Damage
    • -3.59 Intelligence
    Rare Relic
    • +6.99% Cold Damage
    • +3.29 Slashing Protection
    • -2.98 Bludgeoning Protection
    • -7.08 Vitality
    Epic Relic
    • +7.49% Damage Against Giants
    • +7.98% Archery Damage
    • -7.21% Melee Damage
    • -3.68 Unholy Protection
    Legendary Relic
    • +10% Necromancy Magnitude
    • +9.45% Cursed Bolt Magnitude
    • -9.78 Archery Encumbrance
    • -9.04 Strength
    Topics for Discussion
    1. Should the bonuses/drawbacks be completely randomized? We are leaning towards yes due to the sheer amount of combinations and possibilities that would be available.
    2. Should relics have more than one bonus / drawback?
    3. Should there be limitations on the kinds of relics you can attune or should you be able to equip any three you so choose?
    4. How high should bonuses be allowed to go?
    5. How strong should drawbacks get?
    6. Should bonuses between relics stack? Should the drawbacks stack?
    7. Should specific bonuses have specific drawbacks tied to them?
    8. Would you be open to more unique bonuses such as:
      1. Increased AoE size
      2. Increased knockback
      3. Health gained on hit
      4. Etc.
    In Closing

    We are extremely excited about what this system can bring to the table and look forward to all of your feedback. During discussion we ask you to keep in mind the goal with this system - create diversity between players all while looking at it from a means to drive farming and long-term goals.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  2. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
    Hero

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,093
    Likes Received:
    2,975
    1. Should the bonuses/drawbacks be completely randomized?
      Given the depth of possible combinations - Yes. It would make a best in slot Legendary/Epic *ridiculously* rare.

    2. Should relics have more than one bonus / drawback?
      If it's completely randomized, then I don't see how this is relevant. - Yes.

    3. Should there be limitations on the kinds of relics you can attune or should you be able to equip any three you so choose?
      Any three. It allows someone that has taken the time to fine tune their particular playstyle and reap the benefits of a VERY long endeavor to perfection.

    4. How high should bonuses be allowed to go?
      No point in discussing this until we're done with the current balancing. PvE bonuses could go arbitrarily high based on some probabilistic distribution.

    5. How strong should drawbacks get?
      Given a rare bonus - such as increased r50 knockup height - you could go so far as to remove the ability to use another spell or decrease the speed of the projectile. This is hard to think about because everyone wants to just consider the case where they get really rare relics with no adverse effects.

    6. Should bonuses between relics stack? Should the drawbacks stack?
      All multipliers should be relative to their base value. 3 relics with +10% magma damage? The end calculation would be 130% base damage. So... yes and yes.

    7. Should specific bonuses have specific drawbacks tied to them?
      This would require a lengthy discussion. I'll wait for other input before considering an revision to my answer.

    8. Would you be open to more unique bonuses such as:
      1. Increased AoE size
      2. Increased knockback
      3. Health gained on hit
      4. Etc.

        -Yes. I was the one that brought it up as a possibility ;)
     
  3. Kiyayne

    Kiyayne Goblin Shaman

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    44
    Give a Melee Movement Speed Bonus, it's essential to the survival of the melee pushing tunnel vision playstyle.
     
    viniciusdel and koruun like this.
  4. JEDIMind

    JEDIMind Frostjarl
    Wealthy

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    This is an awesome idea.

    I think one bonus/drawback each.
    Personally I don't think hp on melee hit is good. but will test.
    make crafting ones? I remember when there were just crafting clans. + dura, + damage? + pros?
    Can make really cool new quest with these rewards.
    make relics added to weapons and armor to make them permanent to char. Don't add any damage or bonus to them..the special property of these relics would just make an item never drop.
     
    #4 JEDIMind, Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    Owyn Magnus, Fengor and Billy Lee like this.
  5. Sameog

    Sameog Crypt Guard
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    238
    This sounds like adding more grind, I don't want more grind. But maybe it will cause some open world fights from people farming I guess...

    Please fix the crap pvp situation. Relics won't do us any good if we still can't easily get into good fights.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    WithoutShame likes this.
  6. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Varangian Warthane
    Team B Lifetime

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    1,247
    Lots of people will be hunting relics, which means a lot more open world pvp, more reason to team up with friends, farm solo, or whatever you like to do. Above all, relics will be really exciting to loot and allow you to customize your build.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  7. JEDIMind

    JEDIMind Frostjarl
    Wealthy

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    dude this is a mmorpg. There suppose to be a grind.
    If there was some sort of grind in this game you might be able to find people outside villages.
    I wish bpg would take a page from blizzard and just make the grind even dumber when people ask for no grind. And to think that there game is consider the best of all time with a HUGE sub count when Insta no grind PvP games last 2 months.
     
  8. kiwiitis

    kiwiitis Goblin Warrior
    Tester

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    65
    I can't comment on this as is it won't effect me as a non pvper and as little pve as possible.

    What about relics from the gathering skills could have say a double speed pickaxe from mining iron ore same with axe from logging just my thoughts after reading the OP
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Dixie Normus likes this.
  9. Sameog

    Sameog Crypt Guard
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    238
    They can still have some sort of optional grind for fluff and stuff. This is also a pvp game, with this system if you want to be competitive you are forced to grind to get good relics. With this system, even if they manage to fix the abysmal pvp situation, we will have people complaining they lost because the other player had op/better relics.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    MaxiHori and WithoutShame like this.
  10. Jayson

    Jayson Goblin Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    Personally think it sounds like a great idea. Pretty much agree with animal on his answers to your questions! cant wait for the combat to finalised and to see this implemented!!
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Wes Furtive and Fengor like this.
  11. Chantree

    Chantree Dire Zombie
    Wealthy Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    139
    1) yes randomized

    2) maybe 1 bonus 1 drawback for low level relics and more for higher level relics.

    3) Im all for more freedom and not limiting the kinds of relics that can be equiped, however it may depend on how powerful the relics are. May need some hard caps to damage/ protections.

    5) I think the drawbacks should be similar to the benefits in power.

    6) Yes relics should stack. May need some diminishing returns on benefits that are stacked.

    7) I would say no to tying specific benefits and drawbacks, keep it random.

    8) Yes unique bonuses please.

    Maybe you could post a list of every possible benefit and drawback, then the community could add to it.
     
    Billy Lee likes this.
  12. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Infernal
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    853
    * Are relics going to drop from your inventory if you die, if you didn't attune them to your character?
    * Can you trade unattuned relics with other people?
    * Once a relic is attuned, can you switch it out with another and trade that relic?
    * Possible to have relics dropped as loot from villages as well?
     
    Fawley and JEDIMind like this.
  13. JEDIMind

    JEDIMind Frostjarl
    Wealthy

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    Ya. Like all mmorpg. You put in the time you get a edge.
    counter strike is a competitive game right? Some matches you have a glock vs a mp5 and some matches you have an mp5 vs their glock. No one complains cause you can kill anyone with either. Just how games are.
     
    #13 JEDIMind, Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    Battle Smurf, Billy Lee and Fengor like this.
  14. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Varangian Warthane
    Team B Lifetime

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    1,247
    Relics will have a paperdoll slot, once they're in there they can't be looted. Whether they can be looted from your backpack is undecided as of now. You can switch out an attuned relic, attunement is just a process which takes a little time to prevent relic swapping in combat. Whether they will be village loot is undecided as of yet.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    WithoutShame likes this.
  15. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Infernal
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    853
    Just because "all mmorpg"'s do it doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. Darkfalls strength is the PvP, so shouldn't we be giving people incentives to PvP instead of to do something which is not a strength, PvE? And jumping people who are farming is not PvP, it's just ganking.
     
    Zeb likes this.
  16. JEDIMind

    JEDIMind Frostjarl
    Wealthy

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    For sure needs to be lootable ( from backpack ). That's the Darkfall harshness.
    --- Post updated ---
    It's strength is PvP ya but
    ask me what I'm doing in game right now tho. farming.

    Sometimes I don't just wanna sit at a village. So much was going on in the game before when everyone wasn't max. It forces people into the world...how could that be bad? The game was so much harder back in the day and I would run into people 50 times a day..Ya there was more pop back then but if you want everything easy you will end up sitting in your city dueling and watching the billboard. Then when people get board of that ( how fast did that happen? ) they will go run around the world to find people and will find zero ( even before we were are low pop i would run for hours ) then when bpg makes farming pointless i should craft?

    Edit - the games strength is also the world itself and everything you can do and all the places to go. The incentive is to just get out in it and do stuff. PvP is part of the game..but there so much more you can't limit it to a billboard and a village.
     
    #16 JEDIMind, Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    Fengor and Billy Lee like this.
  17. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Messages:
    3,157
    Likes Received:
    3,816

    No keep the relic list a secret so we actually have some discovery back for once
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  18. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Community Manager
    Staff Member BPG Representative Game Designer

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes Received:
    5,182
    That is certainly a possibility, they could be included in the possible bonuses.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  19. kiwiitis

    kiwiitis Goblin Warrior
    Tester

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    65
    @MWTaylor Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post appreciated.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  20. dun sudo

    dun sudo Goblin Warrior

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    42
    This looks great. Also +1 to Animal's thoughts at the top it is nearly the same as mine so I won't bother typing the same thing.
     
    Dixie Normus and Billy Lee like this.