Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

The rise and fall of Darkfall

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Suncross, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Suncross

    Suncross Ghost

    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Many of us played pre-UW, and loved the game. We loved the game mechanics, despite the many flaws, and graphical / mechanical errors. We lived with it, and we loved the game. I want to discuss the rise and fall of the game, and why it will not be a success unless some basic laws of economics, psychology and balancing are heeded.

    As a DF1 vet, I am sure I can make a brief list of game breaking balancing facets of the game, which caused the population to dwindle, and why the veterans to ultimately leave for other games, and it is as follows:

    -Zerging and mercing
    -server launch sieges
    -only logging in for sea towers, Devils, dragons, and AM city mode clearing.
    -24-72hr gear bags getting lost in 2 minutes.

    Let's talk about why these are a recipe for a decaying game population. First we have Zerging and mercing. We all know about Zerging and why it isn't fun for both sides. The Zerging side is frustrated because they blob on the enemy, and the loot is not evenly distributed. No one has a fair fight, and they Zerging side seldom looses. For the side that gets zerged, if they don't retreat and give up, they will die and loose all their stuff. Mercing is fun when you have the opportunity to do it, but for both sides it is viewed as getting killed until they pay that protection money to join their side. It's a lucrative strategy for the mercs, but it doesn't much benefit any party involved. This is lightly covered, but the above are points which are a cause of frustration. This is a game we are playing, and all avenues of choices within a game world should cause fun, excitement, and most importantly within a full-loot open world game: risk; which that risk should be properly balanced in order for there to be fun and excitement.

    In a world of fun and exciting risk, we have that element of equipment procurement, and that equipments' ultimate loss / gain. There is not just one kind of player that is interested in a full loot, hardcore game - the players who have no job / life - and a lot of the population is full of parents, and working class people. Let's look at this from my perspective. I have a professional white collar management job, where I have to be gone for 40-80 hours out of the week. Why would I want to loose a weeks worth of work (on a gear bag) in just a few minutes in a Zerg? I had my fair share of winnings, and those that have played with me know that I'm not half bad, and at my prime could contend with the best. Sure I lost a lot, but there are many in my position that choose not to play for this reason, and so acquiring gear should be balanced. Why kill a dragon on ruby, mine a vein on ysaam and get someone to craft it for me in the middle of agon just to lose it in 2 minutes? There are numerous ways to balance this, but the fact remains the same is that the game needs to adhere to easier ways to get and maintain fighting equipment.

    One will never get a balanced way of getting / losing fighting equipment if there is no one to fight, or the people to fight only show up exclusively for sea towers, dragons and Devils. There needs to be more incentive to log on, and a balanced gameplay. Let's look at what the rest of the market does, like WoW. There is almost instant queueing for battle grounds all the time, because there is incentive to log in every day to do that. For those who have played that game know what I am talking about, and no I am not suggesting a queuing system. However, let's take a look at planet side. You can open up the map and see exactly where all the fighting is. You can see where huge or small fights are taking place. Maybe this is a solution that could be incorporated?

    In terms of location fights, and also through the lense of casual players, we need balancing with sea tower and siege times. I don't care if a siege is at 6 am. I have to go to work. I don't care if a siege is at 12:00 am - I still have to go to work. I'm not going to participate in these sieges. Could also these AM sieges be a latent function to Zerging for revenge? It's definitely interesting to think about, but we need to seriously consider the balancing of major events like these sieges and sea towers. I don't have a specific suggestion, but there does need to be reasonable cut off times.

    Within the realm of reasonable cutoff times, there needs to be some sort of even flow between the time zones. We all live in different parts of the world, which not only dictate our playing time, but also our latency. Let's look at planet side and WoW again. Both of these games took active roles when their gaming population started to dwindle (or in planet sides case, they made their game this way), and WoW made it so you can still get the instant pvp queues, but now you play cross server with everyone. The only differences between the servers now is more like a filing system to where your data is stored. Also with planet side, you can switch which plane you want to fight on based on where the fighting is, or where you are needed.

    Now I know if I wanted to play planetside I would go do it. If I wanted to play WoW, I would do it. I'm not implying that darkfall should do all these things, or that they would work for darkfall, but I am saying that the balancing aspect needs to be there. Players need to have balancing. I didn't once feel like darkfall had an ounce of balancing, and I always had to have macros or whatever to be really successful. With all these things in mind, if we go in this direction, then I think that Darkfall will flourish. If we can't make any concessions, then this game will remain in the dark recesses of gamer antiquity.

    For a moment, let's think of the fun, excitement, risk and balance as an endless circle which relies on the other in order to continue the circle. First you should have excitement. This game should be active with a flourishing population, with assent towards the company and game future on the forums, and then next should be risk. This is a full loot game, where you can lose cities, ships and equipment - that is the focal point of this game, and you need to have people excited about the dice roll of combat, which moves into balanced. That risk needs to be balanced, through game controls to combat, and from the interface to the logistics of the servers. Once you have your excitement, and you are taking on risk through balanced combat, is when you have your fun. The selling point is the risk, and playing in a balanced environment is fun. Once you have had your fun, you go back to excitement to do it all over again. You go on the forums, you make pvp videos, and tell your friends.

    Thanks for reading
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    BootyEater69 likes this.
  2. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant

    Sep 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    I agree that it was very frustrating to die and lose a great gear bag without even getting a chance to use it. The main issue for me was it was such a bitch to get rare ores and such a huge time sink. With the addition of wilderness mines, or other alternative ways of a group of players obtaining a large amount of rare resources through some activity besides the slower grind of golems, it would be much less annoying losing that infernal bag. Basically the game needs a healthier economy and more ways to make money besides PvE. This would create more incentive to log on on a daily basis too.

    As to knowing where the fighting is happening, i'm definitely not for anything like that. It would take all the 'magic' out of daily gameplay. It was awesome hearing spells in the distance and running up and finding a huge fight going on and deciding what to do, either help one side or the other, or wait until the fight is almost over and clean up the stragglers.
  3. Wingen

    Wingen Goblin Warrior

    Aug 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Hopefully this time we will be able to balance things out during beta in regards of gearing up.

    Knowing the location of every fight might be going a little bit to far. Integrating the political map and siege timers into the global map could be something to consider as far as showing "ongoing fights". But, as mentioned above, creating new hot spots is the most sustainable idea.

    Rewarding objects spawning in the wilderness and showing up on the map are all good ideas for hot spots. This could be scaled and implemented using the chaos chest function. introducing smaller chests that could drop useful things needed to create a gear bag, while larger chests could drop the more rare items(Portals, deeds, furniture etc...). As stated by the team for Rise of Agon, the view is to increase the use of warhulks/ships/cannons by making them less expensive. Having them drop in these chests could be a solution. (A good reference to WoW being the gurubashi arena). This could also be implemented as a "Land Tower".
  4. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant

    Sep 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    I remember first trying to discover the location of rare key chests was so much fun, until eventually I realized I was never going to get anything decent from selentine chests. I was expecting it to be like this in the original game, but I think chests should drop a decent amount of their respective rare ingots. So selentine chests would drop maybe 1-7 or so selentine ingots. Then you wouldn't see people with hundreds of unused selentine keys and it'd create a lot more hotspots in lower tier mob spawns.
  5. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

    Aug 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Well, getting a selentine key was really easy.
    Getting 7 selentine ingots was quite a bit of work.

    There are dozens of selentine chests scatterd across the world, so there'd hardly be any fighting around the chests.
    You really want to attempt to make every mob spawn in the game a hotspot, because thats never going to work out.

    I agree that people had loads of unused keys, selentine and even veilron keys didnt offer a lot of reward.
    Some even had a large stack of neithal keys, because the chest would go on a 20 min cd after you had opend it.
    And its not so common to have a chest at a mob spawn dropping the same keys.
    So you end up "having" to farm a spawn at a chest, just so you can get the rewards you earned on previous farming trips.
    Or you have to ride to and from that spawn on a regular basis to cash them in.

    I personally sold my keys, for their basic gold drop.
    Veilron was 1.8k, neithal 2.7k, leenspar 5.8k.
    I never got theyril keys, but i guess the Q5 mats you got from the chest were worth quite a lot.
    The Q4 mats maybe aswell, i just couldnt be botherd to open chests because there werent any close to where i lived.

    This obviously means that some people were opening chests, except selentine, and were earning a little bit just for cashing it in.
    Some people here who bought keys, or at least used all the keys they looted?

    Upping the rewards will make more people use the keys...but its also a pretty big influx of whatever you are offering as extra reward.
    Giving out 1-7 rare ingots per key is going to completely change the economy as it was.
    This might be a positive, given that people struggled to obtain the rares to make good gear...i would be carefull with howmuch you increase rewards though