Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Thoughts on this Crafting suggestion. Grand Master crafting

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by MisterTea, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    398

    -I thought of this earlier but it's 6 pages deep in the poll thread so want to see if people think this is a good idea. imo this could work extremely well in promoting pure crafters while still letting everybody craft their own gear if so so choose to.
    ---
    How about another suggestion. this just came to me so could be a bit rough,
    All current items are crafted as they are now BUT roll only with the lowest rolls, no it doesn't make the items useless nobody had a problem with using mob dropped justice bringers etc and putting a Q3 keen on them. then add a new tier of crafting skill above mastery, for example;

    Grand Master Armoursmith
    Grand Master Weaponsmith
    etc
    these skills are the ones which are limited to 2 per character as a base value ,Items crafted when in possession of these skills allow crafts to reach the Highest rolls ( as they go up in skill 75+ = max rolls possible) but are still random in the craft although they cannot hit the lowest roll number so they always be atleast slightly better than non GM crafted gear.

    this gives us a compromise Everyone can still craft ALL their gear if they so choose, But pure crafters will be able to specialise and create the very best gear.
    Perhaps even have additional Grand master crafts unlocked by Trading an elemental magic school for it, these could be part of a quest chain and the GM will trade you the knowledge after you give up your magical ability. you can swap it back whenever you want but you'll lose all your skill gained in the GM school

    thoughts?-- Post updated ---

    batman
    wtf is going on with my post lol, i made a reply and it copied the above post then i deleted the second reply and it deleted the op
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  2. Najo

    Najo New Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
  3. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    398
    46 views and only 1 reply, People seriously dont give a shit about helping develop ideas it seems lol
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  4. Dotix

    Dotix Air Elemental
    Wealthy Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    363
    This isn't wow homie. This game is based off the extensive freedom.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  5. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
    Hero

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,828
    Likes Received:
    1,933
    I would prefer masteries be limited to 2 per character instead. This doesn't provide enough incentive to trade imo. People would likely only find grand master crafters for sieges.
     
  6. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    398
    Ok, "homie"

    the crafting is going to get changes i'm contributing by providing suggestions. changes are going to happen as it's not healthy for the game to have everybody make everything themselves

    Limiting it to 2 per character is going to end up bad, pure crafters/traders etc will have to have multiple characters to play the game how they want, as I said this is just a rough idea and GM crafts will need to have a big enough incentive to make people want to buy from them, rather than craft everything themselves
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Leg enD likes this.
  7. giantpuppets

    giantpuppets Goblin Shaman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    60
    Hmmm. Would someone mind explaining to me the need for crafting limitations? I have always enjoyed the crafting in this game as it stands. As far as acquiring higher end gear, I don't want to have to rely on trading or PVP. If people want to have a crafting character fully maxed, who is this hurting? Please help me understand. Thank you.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Rhuk likes this.
  8. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    398
    well for one reason It hurts crafters and trader type players, everybody can make their own items and so they never have a reason to trade with each other items are forced to be sold below their worth so all these players quit they can't make a profit nobody wants to trade with them they are not needed.
    this game needs sheep and not just wolfs to succeed otherwise we're just going to die again like before with nothing but wolves
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Avenging Martyr and giantpuppets like this.
  9. Dotix

    Dotix Air Elemental
    Wealthy Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    363
    People trade the materials that are used in crafting, it worked fine originally. I never did crafting in dfo besides bone gear because it was a grind, people pool all the mats in the start of the game to get people maxed crafting to get gear for everyone, yes it relies on one person to thus craft everyone the gear and they can also make money using this crafting skill. Everyone will not have crafting, manh pvpers don't want to spend time crafting they want to pvp. I know plenty of crafters in dfo originally that did not pvp they just enjoyed being a crafter.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  10. giantpuppets

    giantpuppets Goblin Shaman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    60
    Exactly. This is how I remember it as well. I guess the one counter-argument right off the bat could be... maybe some of these all-time crafters would actually prefer to spend less time crafting. This could be accomplished by limiting what they can craft and splitting it up among multiple people. So in that regard, I would agree with this system. But I don't feel like it really impacts the market in a significant way.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  11. Rhuk

    Rhuk Goblin Shaman
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    57
    Don't limit peoples ability to craft what they want.

    "I guess the one counter-argument right off the bat could be... maybe some of these all-time crafters would actually prefer to spend less time crafting, This could be accomplished by limiting what they can craft and splitting it up among multiple people."

    You miss the point - the all time crafters generally WANT to be all time crafters - putting a limit just makes them build alts. You're not going to create trade by constraining supply.
     
  12. JasonDark

    JasonDark Skeleton Archer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    57
    thats correct...

    Why are people forced to sell below cost?
    Isnt it related to the demand vs. offer? It's a small market, and we got crafters producing a ton of stuff - that is not needed for the whole market, especially new crafters will produce a ton of crap gear till they will be able to produce something valueable...
    will limiting the No. of crafting masteries change anything, or will they still flood the market with crap gear, until they can cratch up and craft something actually demanded by the market?
    So, I think limiting the masteries wont solve any of the problems we suffered on the economy in darkfall (especially the people that want to craft all, will have alts...), i think, it should be looked from different angles...
    I made some suggestions, on the poll thread, regarding his and that are probably not the only ones, but i think that the key point is, currently crafting is good only if you're the first few.. it needs to be increased value on the actual product and more stimulated demand for crafted gear, also for the lower rank stuff... i know is a sensible topic, as it might change a lot of aspects of the game, but that would limiting crafting to 2 masteries as well...
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  13. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    1,294
    Any practical suggestions regarding this?
     
  14. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    398
    Part of the reason for selling below cost was that the market was just flooded with items and people didnt think items were worth the material cost so they would buy the materials and level up the crafting themselves.

    my suggestion doesn't limit current crafting masteries it just slightly nerfs them so grand masters produce the highest rolls but people can still make all their own gear if they choose to
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Leg enD likes this.
  15. JasonDark

    JasonDark Skeleton Archer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    57
    well, there are plenty ;)
    We need to increase the demand, so what options do we have?
    - reduce mob drop gear in general or it's quality (take out competition from mob farming)
    - diversity, right now we have the gear fit for everyone in the same way, but why should a male plate chest fit a female character? (this applies to crafting as well as pvp... hey i got an female ork set, wtt for dwarf male, i mean, the items are already looking different why not making them really different items depending on race and gender? one could also have them a new option for crafters to "adapt" the fitting, maybe only to his own race, or how would i know as human, how to make an armor fit to a dwarf? this could also apply to weapon etc, just thinking out of the box, e.g. dont forget robes, we need more robes ;)
    --> these 2 should boost the demand

    On the other side, we got spammed with too many items, worthless, how to reduce this?
    - dont have all recipes from the beginning, require quests to achive or unlock them
    - increase crafting time (and skill gain - idea is less items produced for nothing)
    - reduce the progression speed of crafting lvl (make recipes more complicated)
    - i also like the idea read somewhere here on the forum, that higher rank weapons require a lower rank weapon as base + additional material, like upgrading existing crafted gear
    --> these should reduce the amount of gear crafted and increase their value

    just as a few starting points..

    and of course all would need to be also considered in the greater picture, e.g. have options for people that dont wanna waste their time for a crafter, to also have higher level gear on the npc for sale (not cheap and not the best quality like crated to promote player vendors)
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  16. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    547
    I think stuff like this is just overthought rubbish that will slow down the game from ever launching
     
  17. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
    Staff Member Developer Team Lead

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    6,408
    You could limit the total number of mastery's a character could have. The fewer combat mastery's the more crafting mastery's.
    --- Post updated ---
    ok, lets play it your way. We'll launch the game exactly as it was 4 years ago when we left off. Lots of people hearing the hype of Darkfalls return will hop on. Many.. I mean many will become quickly disappointed and not get much farther than the starting area because it doesn't even come close to giving the entire game justice. Those that stick through it (mind you, I'm not talking about DF vets) will see the same issues that so many saw 6, 7 years ago and drop it.

    OR the dev team can sift through the ideas, pick good ones, get them implemented and release the game in a state that is far more likely to retain new players.

    Yes, those of us who stuck through Darkfalls thick and thin moments will continue to be in Agon for a long time, but there is so much potential that can't be ignored. Unless you want a dead game in 2 years.

    If you only knew.
     
  18. Action_Jackson

    Action_Jackson Deadeye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    38
    I like your ideas Tea but I think they dont solve the issues.
    All BPG said till now is that they want to limit crafting to 2 masteries, not more, but I dont think thats everything they planed to do with crafting or they'd be really dumb to think this works out positively.
    But its a good addition that you might choose better rolls or more dura or whatever and can specialize with a penalty on magic or other skills


    fucking simple
    - Remove all mob dropped/chest items, a positive side effect of this is that people wont run around on day 1 with r60 sentinel swords

    - every usable item needs to be player crafted

    - low lvl gear stays low lvl gear and will only be used in the beginning or to lvl crafting, nothing you can do about it. thats why we only need one kind of r0 to r40 item and all of the other weapon skins can be +r50...with the frontloading skills and faster skills gains overall and the experience all of us have there wont be much early game anyways

    - there needs to be an exponential decrease in skills gains the more crafting masteries you skill up

    - add stat requirments for crafting skills. e.g to craft r50 bows you need 70 wisdom and 70 dex. r80 bows 80 wisdom 80 dex

    - make r80 weapons worth it

    - remove all materials you need for crafting from npc vendors e.g. leather....... and ofc these drop now in large amounts

    - Create rare scrolls/crafting recipes not everyone has (I'd remove every item above r50 from the crafting list, you now have to find to scrolls/recipes above r50,learn them and only then you are able to craft these), can be found and only read by those who already have the crafting mastery

    - to create a real crafter/trader we need people to choose either a fighting skill or a crafting skill e,g you pick up alchemy mastery, water magic gets blocked and so on


    Well now you have a product that is "rare", cant be made by everyone and his mother and there is no way around the crafted gear -> leads to a demand and people will buy it
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #18 Action_Jackson, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  19. Leg enD

    Leg enD Ghost

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    101
    specialized crafters are the way forward

    why would I craft my own infernal pieces when another player makes full plate that's just as good. I wouldn't, unless I was desperate
     
  20. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    547
    I dont care if changes are made that matter, but limiting how other players can or cannot craft is stupid.

    This thread exists so you can limit other players options, which is lame.