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Undocumented changes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by chad, Nov 30, 2016.

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  1. chad

    chad Celestial
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    Why did you increase the range of all r70 melee weapons and not even include it in your patch notes?

    Not only is that unbalanced as fuck, but it's setting the precedent for you to include any changes you see fit and just hope no one in the community takes note. Maybe you feel like arrow hit boxes need to be bigger? Maybe rays should be cones. Who knows what you're changing when you don't even include it in patch notes.
     
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  2. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    What's funny is that like 3 clans can make them, and we're one of them, but we're not keeping this quiet for a horrendously large advantage. :relaxed:
     
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  3. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    Why would we make changes and not want people to notice? I am responsible for implementing those changes to see how long it would take people TO NOTICE. It took about a month. Good job, you win the prize!
    --- Post updated ---
    Is it the fact that not everyone clan make them?
    Or the fact that having a much more expensive weapon has a shred of uniqueness to it?
    (just wondering, collecting info)
     
  4. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    No, we noticed it a long time ago, but there was a lot of back and forth on whether or not we should start a thread about it, because like I said, very few clans have access to the crafters / resources needed for R70s and literally everyone else in the game is gimped. I'd be pretty mad if my clan didn't have 100 weapon/armor masteries.
    --- Post updated ---
    Longer reach isn't a shred of uniqueness, it's overpowered. A shred of uniqueness is adding 3 unholy damage so you can hit slightly over cap, etc.
     
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  5. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
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    dest, hidden "easter eggs" that alter program execution without user consent have empirically been shown to subvert otherwise good software engineering. you're essentially invalidating the explicit/implicit postconditions of your program.

    don't be so condescending. one of the major factors that led to AV's failure is their lack of transparency. when you're making non-cryptographic changes to a core feature of your program, you should be proud of your work & eager to document it for the public. otherwise, you're sowing the same seeds of distrust with your community as AV did.
     
    #5 joshuawn, Nov 30, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
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  6. chad

    chad Celestial
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    No idea why you wouldn't want people to know. That's why I'm wondering why you don't include it in patch notes? It's not like it's some fun easter egg where I shoot mana missile at a wall three times and a picture of your girlfriends dick appears.

    Doesn't make any sense to normalize reach across the board and then add increased range to certain weapons. Brain dead?
     
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  7. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    Noticed that too, eh? Dude's been getting increasingly defensive and condescending towards any criticism to "his" patches being picked on recently.
     
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  8. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    It's simple, I forgot. But my reason for doing it was simple - to see if 0.02 reach was so important, it would push an entire server to run around with weapons that cost like 30k all the time in fear of being gimped. I didn't anticipate that most clans wouldn't be able to make them yet, but do you guys ALWAYS run around with R70s now as a result? Can we at least extract some constructive information from this thread instead of everyone just calling me a cunt and braindead? lol
     
  9. Reptar

    Reptar Fire Elemental
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    This has to be the poorest reply from any, literally any, employee/dev(DEV) response I've ever seen regarding a serious balancing issue.
     
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  10. Ninogan

    Ninogan Undead Dwarf
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    Could just be accidental but I also felt that tone in DestLocke's post and that's not a good sign ever. I'd hate to see RoA go down the same path as the Warhammer Online private server who's devs and admins are frankly so unprofessional it's sickening.
     
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  11. Mc Nasty

    Mc Nasty Obsidian Golem
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    Lol at dest locke

    Considering 90% of the clans cant make it why would you think it would be noticed very quickly. Thanks for the feedback guys and how in the hell did you think increasing reach would be a good idea lol.

    ps you are getting arrogant
     
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  12. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
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    if you forgot to document it, it's all good. people may react negatively to it (i think it's an awful idea), but i don't think anyone here would've had any issue with you. as darkfall players, our vocabulary tends to be rough around the edges when we're passionate. if we have negative opinions, we don't mean it personally even if we're literally addressing you. to reiterate the point of my last post, there are fundamental ethical issues that arise when you experiment with your unwitting customers.

    regardless, there's no reason for you to victimize yourself (and most certainly not pretend it's for the "greater good") instead of owning up to it.

    you're representing BPG now, dest. grow the fuck up and make them look good.
     
    #12 joshuawn, Nov 30, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  13. Darthlizard

    Darthlizard Goblin Warlord
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    Got to defend DestLocke here. You are all really sensitive. Remember that this is beta, and that it sounds like Dest has an actual reason behind what he did. He surely wasn't trying to make anyone upset...
     
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  14. chad

    chad Celestial
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    My tough outer internet shell doesn't allow me to type in a non-abrasive manner. I believe most people will tell you that this idea is unfortunate and changing game mechanics based on your gear is bad design. It's in the same vein as doubling the width of rays because I have a cobra. The concept of gear crutching is approaching a whole new level.
     
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  15. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    Couldn't have said it better. If you implement a bad change, we're going to be vocal and butthurt about it, but if you implement a bad change and hide it / forget to mention it, it'll only cause more butthurt.

    Now the last thing you want to do is come into a thread acting arrogant / condescending towards any criticism of the change, That would be bad.
     
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  16. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
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    imo all undocumented changes need to get the fuck out of America right god damn now
     
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  17. VVolfgang

    VVolfgang Fire Elemental
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    Not documenting on patch notes additional mats or added loot is one thing. Having something that is an advantage over players because they don't have a weapons crafter at 100 yet is another. I get BPG wants to put things in the game that aren't on patch notes, to have little surprises. But to do it with weapons or armor I think is asking to get flamed. We have a crafter in clan that can do R70's but he's not playing right now, neither is the one other person that could get ahold of him. So just keep in mind some people aren't playing very often to they don't get burnt out before launch.
     
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  18. Ford Prefect

    Ford Prefect Frostjarl
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    Well, now we know why Flash has been running around with R70s all the time now.
     
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  19. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Good lord you guys are blowing this out of the water. DOUBLING the width of rays? Really? It's a fucking .02 increase. Notice the difference between polearms and GS now is only a .10 difference. That's a tiny step's worth. I think it's a really cool feature tbh, and honestly for their cost i'm totally fine with it. There's not much constructive criticism in this thread, just raging.

    I'm honestly wondering if this isn't because you guys are just salty you got wrecked by a certain elf with a r70 GS.
     
  20. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    I wasn't trying to act arrogant or condescending, but I can't control perception. I've always said I love the passion of the community, and that's not going to change, but do not mistaken my own passion for anything more or less then that. We're not trying to "slip one by", I sincerely have no clue why any dev would try to do that, there is literally nothing to gain by doing such - if it's in the game, someone will find it, that's been proven time and time again.
     
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