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[VIDEO]-Magnetic Man - NEW PVP VIDEO!

Discussion in 'Rise of Agon Videos' started by MagneticMan, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. miasMa

    miasMa Varangian Warthane
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    I haven't watched the video yet, but frostbite shoots at the end of the animation. It isn't instant like the other rays.
     
  2. Marxman

    Marxman Obsidian Golem
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    So only the second ice ray does any damage? I am chopping wood right now and dont have anyone to test this on but I will test it when I get the chance, im pretty sure the first ray still counts but not entirely surely.
     
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  3. propain

    propain Black Knight
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    I was under the impression that frostbite had a fatter hitbox than other rays. Not to mention it can go through objects and dbl hit, no?
     
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  4. pvecrafterist

    pvecrafterist Goblin Warlord

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    rays dont have width or height, they dont have hurtboxes they are hitscan.
     
  5. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
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    darkfall's rays aren't hitscan. apt to their name, they are ray traces that "collide" with where the server thinks the hitboxes are located within a certain tolerance dependent on the attacker's & victim's pings (note: not perfect interpolation). in other words, they need to be leaded.
     
    #25 joshuawn, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  6. Sacrillegious

    Sacrillegious Fire Elemental
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  7. pvecrafterist

    pvecrafterist Goblin Warlord

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    yeah they are, hit detection just isnt client side so you cant aim for the model most of the time due to ping, however this will never result in a need to lead in the traditional sense, you will have to aim where they were not where they are going to be, and the amount of this "leading" is dependant on your ping and their ping, if 2 low pingers fight there will barely be any leading required.

    Rays don't feel like instant cast either, there seems to be a tiny delay between clicking and the ray actually happening so you could be confused by that.
     
  8. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
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    you just posted one long contradiction lol
    hitscan implies client-sided precedence, if not pure calculation, of a ray trace. to improve a player's accuracy, darkfall's rays should be thought of as server-sided instantaneous projectiles.
     
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  9. pvecrafterist

    pvecrafterist Goblin Warlord

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    nah I think you are confused about what hitscan is, friend.

    it doesnt, hitscan in no way implies clientside.
     
  10. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
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    you're convoluting the definition of hitscan by generalizing it with any & all ray traces. if you compare how darkfall's rays are fired by people with different ping, you'll understand what i'm saying. note that most of magnetic's rays hit when he's not aiming at the person (in fact, much farther away than i've ever had to aim any rays).

    to use a different example: there are games in which bullets will hit an enemy if aimed directly by a player (e.g. Source engine games like TF2 with cl_interp enabled), and other games in which bullets will hit an enemy only when the player factors the enemy's &/or server's ping & disregards their own perspective (e.g. official GunZ servers which use P2P connectivity). both games use ray traces. since the client's perspective is taken into account in TF2, those bullets are considered to be hitscan. since only the enemy's perspective is taken into account in GunZ, those bullets are not considered to be hitscan.

    "hitscan" is just a very simplified way to define precedence of player damage with ray traces. it is not meant to be a technical term nor is it meant to be all-inclusive; it is meant solely for players to rationalize how damage is dealt.
     
    #30 joshuawn, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  11. pvecrafterist

    pvecrafterist Goblin Warlord

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    Heres all that matters: Darkfall rays are instantaneous lines being drawn and if they intersect a hitbox they hit, now obviously because hit detection in this game isnt client side you cant aim for models as thats not where the hitboxes are on the server, and thus you will need to aim for where their hitbox actually is, which is generally ghosting their model.

    No point arguing definitions further, hitscan as I've always heard it defined has only referred to this, regardless of whether it has been client side or not.
     
  12. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
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    again, you're only talking about ray traces in general. a 'ray trace' isn't synonymous with 'hitscan'. you clearly understand the definition of ray traces, but you fail to understand that 'hitscan' isn't all-inclusive technical vernacular. some ray traces have the property of being 'hitscan' whereas others do not.
     
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  13. pvecrafterist

    pvecrafterist Goblin Warlord

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    Yeah whatever nerd no point discussing the definition of hitscan.

    my point, being that the idea that frostbite is "fatter" than the other rays is wrong as none of the rays have any height, width or duration, no hurtboxes so to say, still stands.
     
  14. sky

    sky Undead Dwarf
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    lets retrace our steps

    step 1. make a claim not entirely correct
    step 2. get proven wrong/corrected
    step 3. continue to delude yourself

    ok

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Sorrow Avaritia

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    You are all wrong, hit scan is where the police hits a black guy, scans the area to make sure there is no one there, shoots him, plants a gun and then calls it in.
     
  16. pvecrafterist

    pvecrafterist Goblin Warlord

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    Nothing was proven, we simply disagree on the definition of hitscan.

    Now I understand you must hold dolphin in quite high esteem and see him as some grand authority who from his high throne mandates the definitions of the words we use, but I ask for you to consider this for a moment: when have you ever seen any other forms of hit detection mentioned in any discussion than hitscan or projectiles?

    Hitscan is widely used to refer to any and all ray trace hit detection, be it server side or not, just because dolphin doesnt agree doesnt really matter whatsoever.

    If I were half as autistic as you is I'd be up in arms about his definition of leading, which was obviously wrong by any measure, but I'm not because definitions of words arent really what we are trying to discuss here, but rather how rays in this game function.
     
    #36 pvecrafterist, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  17. Obeesho

    Obeesho Frostjarl
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    Just to clarify from page 1.

    Unholy caress goes through nothing.

    Lightning and cold go through everything in their path. People, rocks, trees, walls...

    The rest of the convo is one of those "netcode" discussions where I would swear y'all are doctorate level computer scientists who did your thesis's on darkfall with full access to the source code.

    In other words y'all sound full of it.
     
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  18. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
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    correct, gamers tend to only talk about hitscan & projectiles. and yet, you will only serve to confuse said gamers if you tried to convince someone who is aiming directly at an enemy's model & missing with a server-sided weapon that it's still hitscan. very few gamers nowadays have played games that utterly lack client-sided hit detection (namely because most of those games have limited public appeal). hitscan is much more colloquial than you're giving it credit for.

    i seriously have to question what games you've played where you can talk about server-sided hit detection ray traces as hitscan & not confuse the ever-living shit out of anyone without a technical background. and no, those gamers aren't wrong: to reiterate, you're convoluting the definition of hitscan fallaciously. ray traces have been well-understood for a long time, and yet you are defining hitscan 1-to-1 with ray traces when it simply refers to client-validated ray traces.

    there's a reason the spells in question are called rays: they're fucking ray traces lol. i will repeat: hitscan is largely accepted by gamers to be a property of a ray trace (or, to better portray how they understand it, if they can aim directly at an enemy's model on their screen with their bullets or not).

    i don't think any of your other points were wrong in your original post. my sole intention was to clarify that you're using the term hitscan incorrectly. and as you saw, you're just confusing people that don't understand what you mean.

    :)
     
    #38 joshuawn, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  19. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    Frostbite's second animation is the actual ray trajectory. The first animation is the same timing as every other ray's animation, but the trajectory of other rays isn't visible.

    The first animation in Frostbite doesn't do any damage.

    Also, rays aren't hitscan, stop being dumb.
     
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  20. Marxman

    Marxman Obsidian Golem
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    Ahh I see, thanks for clarifying this for me everyone :)
     
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