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Water Casting is worse than using a mount to get out of a house

Discussion in 'Rise of Agon Videos' started by Train of Pain, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Train of Pain

    Train of Pain Infernal
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    Prodigy got a 3 day ban for using a known "exploit" or "bug" to get out of a house. This guy is using a known "exploit" or "bug" to heal his teammate underwater. If bugs/exploits are not going to be punished then I'll start exploiting all over Agon on stream so they are known to all Vets and New players.



    He used this multiple times in the fight this is just the clip that show it the clearest
     
    #1 Train of Pain, Jul 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
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  2. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    Twitch gets all fucked up on these forums. I can't see what you are talking about. Try clipping it and making it into a youtube video.
     
  3. Train of Pain

    Train of Pain Infernal
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    There ya go, I forgot about that. Thanks
     
  4. Wes Furtive

    Wes Furtive Obsidian Golem
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    I'm curious what the ruling on this one is myself.
     
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  5. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    Should be bannable offense imho, especially in PvP. Otherwise, it shouldn't be hard to fix as no spell effect should apply underwater (I'm likely wrong on this though).
     
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  6. Clarence Swamptown

    Clarence Swamptown Black Knight
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    BANNED
     
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  7. Sorrow Avaritia

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    I think it should be allowed, there are other things related to combat that you could consider exploits that people use all the time that no one is asking for the ban hammer on. The eye rot thing, the mount thing and so on. I see no difference between this and them.
     
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  8. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    People did this all the time in DFO. It was considered just normal play... You can find videos of people doing it without any worry that it was bannable. If BPG decides its a no-no then it should be advertised as such from here on out.
     
  9. Whisper

    Whisper Air Elemental
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    I kind of agree with this, where is the line really? Looking down to avoid a blind entirely is seen as a skill ceiling thing. Casting underwater like this is difficult and is limited to people on the surface, so why is this in a different category? We use battlespikes to hop, physics spells designed to push other players away to ski, lean after swinging on a mount for almost a full 180 degree swing, animation cancel mount back kicks, bug out revive so we can move while casting it, crouch cancel bindstone recall to make it silent, and look up when we rest to partially clip into things to be less visible.

    The list goes on and on. Where are the lines?
    --- Post updated ---
    Or, couldn't they just try to patch it out?
     
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  10. Sintan

    Sintan Black Knight
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    They'd try to patch it out and somehow the second you went underwater you'd just insta drown.
     
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  11. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    I dun get why he got a 3 day ban when dune rats guy got a 1 day ban for exploiting how are the 2 any different?
     
  12. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
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    tip, if someone is that close in melee with daggers switch to a bow :p

    but yeah OT this shit needs to be fixed
     
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  13. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    I also do not find it worse, and neither do you it just happened to you today and your got upset about it.
    The escaping the house with a mount (while not really a big deal to me) allows a person to escape a situation they put themselves in without consequence. Tossing a spell under water while I agree it prolly needs to be fixed is a much different situation.
     
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  14. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    It probably wouldn't be easy to do. Its also something that should probably be debated. I personally never thought it was a bad thing. It isn't easy to do and provides at least something someone without a bow can do in water. The 'benefit' of fixing it might end up not being worth the limited man hour resources and it would lower the skill ceiling of water fighting.
     
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  15. Whisper

    Whisper Air Elemental
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    I agree, I tend to see things like this as a skill ceiling aspect, and only a minor one. This guy could hold space for about a second, be on the surface, and get the heal all the same. This gives a tiny edge here, at the cost of almost the same extra second being spent by the guy healing, having to time his duck just right.
     
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  16. Sorrow Avaritia

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    I don't know if it should be a ban worthy offense or not, all I am saying is that if this is a ban worthy offense that many other things that people do and consider common practice should also be a ban worthy offense,

    I think the mount exploit to get out of a house is entirely different, you are using a mount to get through terrain you shouldn't be able to get through, that is clearly an exploit and there is no skill to it.
     
  17. Ringo Starr

    Ringo Starr Deadeye

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    I think this should be a bannable offense if using a mount to get through a window is a bannable offense. Because otherwise we are advertising certain exploits while we ban for certain other exploits. It becomes completely s tupid for new players trying to understand it and it doesnt make any sense.
    You exploit you face the consequences. There should be no grey line or no "good exploit". It becomes very stupid otherwise.
    Both "exploits" are basically providing unfair advantages to people who know them vs people who dont. So there is no difference between them. And the argument that "it was ok in DFO or whereever" is really not an argument at all, because there was so much wrong with that game on so many levels lets not take it as a good example.


    Personally I thought its quite silly that there are so many double standards with exploits anyways. Dune Rat guy exploited as hard as you can carrying 4000+ battlespikes gets a 1 day ban, Instinct guy goes through a window with a mount gets a 3 day ban? I think the devs fail to provide a fair judgement when it comes to people who helped to provide feedback in the beta. You can't play favorites when it comes to stuff like this otherwise your game will be dead faster than you can say racechange.
     
  18. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    An exploit is pretty much any unintended thing that can be done in game. This game is full of unintended things, all of which could be argued to be exploits. Many have become beloved features and mechanics. Avoiding eye rot is a good example. Its a bug for sure, but it provides a positive skill based counter to its blind. Its by far a net positive to the game and should most definitely remain in game. Fact is some 'exploits' can actually add depth and meta to the game. Some are bad, like using a mount to exploit through geometry or logging out on player structures to avoid PvP by falling through them. So yes, exploits should be decided on a case by case basis. Some are good and actually improve the game. Some are bad and must be punished. Its up to BPG and the community to decide what is what.
     
  19. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    they need to make a clear decision about it, cause technically battle spike hoping is an exploit, they were not designed for it, shooting under water only works if your on the shore and someone is close enough to use it. many "exploit" are considered part of the game because AV or BPG did not say otherwise ore remove them.
     
  20. Sorrow Avaritia

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    The thing is there are many exploits that are used, that are considered common place and not even considered exploiting, if you ban for water casting there is many other things you should ban for to. The mount thing is abusing terrain and I think it has been stated b4 that it is considered an exploit.
    --- Post updated ---
    I personally think that being able to cast under water is a good thing, its not a very easy thing to do well.