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What's your stance on griefing?

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by KeithStone, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. KeithStone

    KeithStone Deadeye
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    I'm talking about things like using knockback to knock new players around and get them killed in mob spawns?

    Is this going to be an acceptable play style?
     
  2. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    acceptable or possible?

    I think most clans thought it wasnt a good idea to purposely ruin another players experience, at the very least when they are new in the game.

    Possible, well...how many safety features can you introduce before it gets in the way of things?

    I personally think that most players wouldnt, but there will always be a few asshats who will.
    If we can implement some things to make it more difficult for them then sure, but it shouldnt get in the way of normal game play.
    And it will always be possible, no matter how hard you try. Unless you make safe zones, which i think has been agreed upon isnt something we want in the game.
     
  3. Hugo

    Hugo Gravelord

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    Griefing is, unfortunately, unavoidable. Darkfall does allow players to ultimately do what they will with one another.

    We are taking steps to avoid the griefing of players, including adding criminal flags to wanton looting of others monster gravestones and looking at addressing the alignment/red system such that abusing racial allies in lawful zones is not favourable to anyone but avowed player killers who will be public enemies in such zones.

    Beyond this and use of bugs/exploits, we hope to empower the players to enact social justice whenever appropriate!
     
  4. Zeb

    Zeb Infernal
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    a Better flagging system will go such a long way to avoid griefing
     
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  5. KeithStone

    KeithStone Deadeye
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    I wanted to mention this, but I figured I would be called a carebear, glad you said it first! :D
     
  6. KeithStone

    KeithStone Deadeye
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  7. Rawr

    Rawr Chosen of Khamset

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    Working on it :) but we won't bring back safe zones, they were too crippling to the game.

    I hate hate hate hate safezones. Even as a merchant I HATE THEM!
     
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  8. The Law

    The Law Goblin Warlord
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    I personally don't like griefing others, but I do like the dynamic that griefers introduce. For instance would the white knight lord zanuul ever have been if it weren't for griefers picking on the weak? I also thoroughly enjoyed trying to get revenge on the people that griefed me. I found it very fun trying to hunt down the people on my "list" and it was very rewarding when I was able to cross a name off. Some of the most memorable experiences I had in the game were fending off griefers and pks around the chillbourne area. I do agree that hardcore griefing, ie camping someone at a chaos bind stone for days on end should be looked into, but mild griefing like pushing someone afk into a mob spawn, or war dec'ing a clan to kill them in npc cities should stay. There are ways for a player to avoid things like this from happening and it's up to him to adapt and learn how to overcome them. Being able to handle mild griefing is what separates the hardcore sandbox crowd (your target group) from the carebears (the people that will never support the vision of DF). This game will NEVER appeal to the carebears no matter how hard you try.
     
  9. Kevin Lee

    Kevin Lee Goblin Scout

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    One of the key aspects to DFO is player freedom. It will be up to the community to police people that are known griefers.

    One thing you need to keep in mind is that nearly everyones definition of griefing is different. Some people think something like gathering from the same resource node is griefing while others do not. While I will fight tool and nail to get friendly NPC g
    uards into racial areas to replace towers and have them patrol new player hot spots I will not seek to introduce any form of 100% safety from people choosing to play the game how they want to.
     
  10. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Well said. +1
     
  11. Heldana

    Heldana Windlord
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    Perfect answer, thank you for making the typing work :)
     
  12. Owyn Magnus

    Owyn Magnus Varangian Warthane

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    I will say this, Goblin Preservation Society were some of the bigger griefers I have ever seen, and I loved having them around.

    Made you stay on your toes even in NPC cities.

    And provided content by being the biggest douche-nozzles around. They were the perfect clan to hate/fight.
     
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  13. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Exactly. It was so much fun roaming around cities hunting them down trying to protect blues from them. I miss having fights with War decced clans around NPC cities.
     
  14. Dixie Normus

    Dixie Normus Black Knight
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    my stance would usually be above the corpse gloating.

    Kidding.

    I think owyn put it best, kept you on your toes. I was never at ease in darkfall, unless I was in my clan city, and sometimes not even then.

    the flagging system is nice and all but it never stopped griefing in uo. Now thats a game where i loved to grief people! I remember reading the galad and galad and imanewbie sites, just tears of joy streaming down my face.


    you cant even say dip the miner around me irl or ill devolve into grunts and snorts with whatever i was drinking , dripping from my nose.


    also : http://looterslair.com/
     
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  15. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    Having systems that make sense to minimize grieving for new players is something to work on but by the nature of the game it's impossible to remove it completely. Especially when it's subjective whether or not you're being grieved.
     
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  16. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    Very well said this mirrors my own thoughts on the subject. Darkfall is a world about Freedom above all else, putting up hard barriers by removing the ability to affect players in a natural and organic way removes one of the ideals the game is based around. Now that said everything is about risk and reward so we can't have a system that encourages griefing there needs to be some mechanics, soft barriers, that make it more difficult to do but still possible.
     
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  17. Lord Zanuul

    Lord Zanuul Spellgazer
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    I believe in freedom as well ... but that being said we have to fully understand that this is a game and should have consequences for negative actions ... and needs to be real consequences.. . Il give my reasoning .. in every society there are laws .. people break them and there is punishments .. in society those punishments can be severe .. sometimes even death ... this is a game .. we cant lock your character up .. we cant final death you .. we could i guess but that really wont help the game lol .. my point is we have to come up with creative ways to punish the behavior so it creates a real insentive not to grief .. if you want to grief have at it .. but this is the consequences.. . And on the flip side .. this is your reward .. choose
     
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  18. Uzik

    Uzik Wildtribe Mage
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    I'm very happy to see that Zanuul is fighting the good fight on this topic.

    As someone who spent a ton of time with him fighting GPS around human lands, I have a very good understanding of the impact it has on the overall health of the game.

    Darkfall was always about freedom, and I always found the NPC city wardec abuse to be a severely broken system that was confused as being essential to that freedom. The wardec system contributed to ghost towns that were only populated by n00bs, griefers, and the few who try to help the n00bs and fight the griefers. It also helped drive a lot of players away who wanted to have a clan, but did not want to immediately move out to a player city.

    I am all for clans like GPS being able to rape and pillage across the countryside, and I am also all for NPC "guards" (towers) killing people who create unrest in their city. A clan should not be able to slaughter another clan in the middle of Sanguine simply because they checked a button on an in-game menu.
     
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  19. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    Yeah the wardec system is on our radar to get reviewed for a few reasons including newbie clan griefing.
     
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  20. Riftmaster

    Riftmaster Deadeye

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    I was usually the one griefed - I'd say I agree with you in the main except for the war dec so can kill in NPC cities.

    Personally I think combat in NPC cities should always result in gray status, except perhaps for duels.

    But I never really liked guard towers. NPC guards would be better, although much more complex in implementation.