No it's not the main problem. The problem with B-Hop when it exists as it is currently solo players are far harder to stop effectively. If people had to use teamwork it would be far more limiting. 2 guys wanting to asset damage the same place at the same time and good enough to effectively run from a group? I'd take those odds. Even better if they were forced onto mounts. They'd have almost no hope unless there was literally no one on. Even if I had to repair the bank doing that once in the morning is far better than getting hit over and over and not being able to kill the fuck 80% or more of the time. --- Post updated --- One thing I always argued was making it so blocking significantly lowered movement spell effects coming from the front. So allies could push/pull you from behind but enemies couldn't knock you around like a pinball unless you were caught totally off guard.
Zergs will always exist. I'd rather figure out a way to keep most of the B-Hop Mechanic but if we can't solve it I'd take a lively world over a dead one. Believe it or not harassment is as serious issue. Once the game isn't fun people don't come in. Sprain is good enough for the endless hopping. No health from fall damage would be nice. If we can solve the issues. We got a solution for 1 out of 3 so far. PS: I would bet money Abso will never be the largest zerg in darkfall. So really even if I was trying to buff zergs it wouldn't be entirely in my favor. IF that was true that is. --- Post updated --- Common guys we can't stop now. We got a solution for 1 out of 3 issues. Safe zones in newb areas would prevent newb griefing in starter zones but it would not help newb griefing or general harassment issues elsewhere. Clans do recruit newbs, newb clans like to work outside of safe zones and they should have a fucking chance without dealing with cancerous harassment. So far I see removing spell effects from self as the best viable method. Groups could still use the mechanics through teamwork and solo harassing would die overall. If we can solve these issues I'd like to see fall damage removed so chasers don't lose health for engaging in a fight. I want damage left to the combat elements we love. However we need to figure out the harassment/griefing now. Lets brainstorm guys. I'm going to work soon and I hope I see some ideas later. Even rough ones we can try to refine. --- Post updated --- This is a related discussion on another thread which I am copy/pasting here since it is relevant. Followed by my reply First off thanks for the real reply. I appreciate it even if we disagree. The forums need more of this despite the time sink / effort required. Marketplace will make it easy but those won't be everywhere (I imagine). Vendors are in every npc/player city. Markets are still subject to availability and price fluctuation. Vendors would not be. I don't want the skill itself removed. I just think taming should be instant maxed these days. Open it up and make mounts like regs. Farm-able and vendor bought without any hassle. Make it so the newbs can have the fancy stuff if they got the gold without any extra steps. That's my angle on this. As for B-Hop you are in the wrong thread but I'll take the discussion. I doubt you read sections 8 or 10 which is the main parts of that thread. My ideas to make the nerf better if the mechanic stays because we solved the core problems OR how I'd want it to be if we can't which would allow teamwork to accomplish the same shit as we do now. Yes harassment does happen. Not all day everyday but some groups will come back several times in a few hours or multiple groups throughout a day and that's not mentioning asset damage harassment which we figured out a solution to that thanks to that thread btw. I know GM tickets have been made for various types of harassment and you notice I'm not getting called a liar by everyone. Even you have to admit it's possible. In a game like this with our community if it's possible it is happening sometimes, somewhere to someone. Maybe not constantly for some. Some many never see it. Larger clans that recruit weaker people do get targeted and pure newb/bad clans do because they have plenty of easier targets. Even if vets or good players are around with B-Hop they CAN GET AWAY. Not instantly, not 100% easy but it's got great odds and is annoying. Harassment is real and in fact it's why I don't play this game. I'm sure I am not the only one by far but that's my opinion. I want B-Hop to still exist. In my wet dreams solo players won't be able to B-Hop. I want use to use teamwork to accomplish the same goals. Some people flip out I want them to play with others in a MMO. Mind you I also want mounts buffed so solo players won't get destroyed easily. Personally I always thought that mechanic was an intended teamwork offensive/defensive feature. Personally I believe that is how it would work if razorwax ran this game to this day but it's just my opinion. If movement effects didn't effect self we would have to work as teams with real teamwork to launch into other groups of people or pull them out of enemy lines. I don't like this one hole whack-a-mole where the hardest part is picking the clearest path we can find and then praying enemies don't hit you. This is argued as skill and I would argue against personally which is again all down to our opposing opinions. While no one likes to admit harassers exist usually they bastards are not easy targets unless they are retreating from a full on engaged real fight and chasers are literally right behind them aligned. Which doesn't happen when harassers are trying to avoid fighting for various reasons. Which you would know if you read Section 9 Everyone dismisses the harassment problems. I won't let you people do it anymore. BPG knows the truth, they got the GM tickets, They read the complaints and we all know issues with B-Hop have existed since vanilla DF. I want us to aim and dodge. Use W, A, D while keeping spacial awareness on our highest setting so they or I have to watch behind us to dodge incoming fire while dodging. People just find the best path, tap a rhythm and pray they don't get hit and call it skill... Which wouldn't be so terrible if it wasn't the easiest and best way to fuck with others and oh so effective. Then I get the utter paradox of arguments claiming it's really easy to do but not really easy to escape with for a harasser. Vague vacuum arguments about proper usage and dismissive insults against our aim. Which if you read the section of my thread for claiming we can't aim maybe you'd understand why that's such utter bullshit even for veterans. Let alone casuals or newbs or baddies WE DESPERATELY NEED FOR THIS GAME TO SURVIVE AS A REAL GAME. Safe zones for starter areas would be a good step. Some hard separation but that won't stop harassment out in the world, at clan cities etc etc. Partially address the problem is good but that is not a real fix. Soon as they step beyond the problem still exists though not as terrible. Build Diversity would be great and it could help but that's totally off topic. If these people want to do this shit. They will use whatever build is best for it. IF they can profit this way, enjoy it etc there is not option that's going to stop that without complete prevention such as a safe zone for starter areas. This will not work for other areas. You can add all the sand you want if someone enjoys breaking down kids sand castles and that's what they want to do nothing will change it unless someone else prevents it. Some people enjoy others misery/annoyance and grief. Hence why griefing has existed since gaming started. You are defiantly not reading my posts. B-Hop is not the issue. B-Hop forever is stupid and sprain mechanic works. I want health loss on fall damage removed. So chasers accepting the chase are not losing health despite being fresh on the scene. That is if we can solve the harassment issues. Read Section 3 on that thread on how removing b-hop would benefit defenders in general and then you can talk to me about it. The fact you are telling me mounts go the same speed and that's the same as issue with B-Hop shows me you have not thought about this in detail or have not taken it seriously. Then mentioning chasing B-Hoppers on mounts. Man it's almost amusing. Despite mounts going obviously slower even at sprint. The defenders lose the initial ground via aggressors B-Hoping and really to take them down effectively you are pressured to B-Hop after them and if you are trying to endlessly chase them you'd mount after hopping. As for killing them that may be possible if you are point blank which if you read section 9 you'd know why that is unlikely with harassers. Then we got your statement about raiders bringing more numbers? That's not harassment man. That's war. HA I'd love it personally. A lively game with major fights? We'd bring/make allies and thewar is on. I want that so much. Even if we died over and over. It would be a terrible scenario for casuals/baddies but then guys like us would probably protect them from shitty clans/zergs and we'd rune in and save the day whenever we could. Either way most of this post has been a little insulting but I know I'm beating a dead horse that no one wants to really discuss and can hardly take the discussion seriously anymore. Let alone serious enough to read that brick of text. I'm waiting for a miracle and this game reviving but I don't see it with harassment staying in game as is. I dedicate this song to be the theme of darkfall as we continue to cater to our elites and our hardcore pvpers. I think the lyrics fit this game so well these days. "The Doomed" Behold a new Christ Behold the same old horde Gather at the altering New beginning, new word And the word was death And the word was without light The new beatitude: "Good luck, you're on your own" Blessed are the fornicates May we bend down to be their whores Blessed are the rich May we labour, deliver them more Blessed are the envious Bless the slothful, the wrathful, the vain Blessed are the gluttonous May they feast us to famine and war What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful? What of the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? All doomed All doomed Behold a new Christ Behold the same old horde Gather at the altering New beginning, new word And the word was death And the word was without light The new beatitude: "Good luck..." What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful? What of the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? What of the righteous? What of the charitable? What of the truthful, the dutiful, the decent? Doomed are the poor Doomed are the peaceful Doomed are the meek Doomed are the merciful For the word is now death And the word is now without light The new beatitude: "Fuck the doomed, you're on your own" --- Post updated --- More back and forth of this topic with Sero in another thread. Again copy/pasting the whole thing here. My Response You either endless chase or shoot at them. Shooting at them must be done on foot. Chasing mounted or hopping regardless it will come down to shooting while running at some point. B-Hop can still get as fast as a sprinting mount if not a little faster. I got chased by someone just last month when I was giving some of the new changes a whirl while playing and saw it first hand. I've been arguing to limit mounts and make them better overall in another thread. Which you haven't read that either apparently. Harassment for anyone is a real issue man. For vets, noobs etc. ANYONE. Reducing it is nothing but good for the game. Runes can't be marked in cities anymore. Though nearby could be bad enough. I understand what you mean about world travel. Personally I like the convenience of RoA world travel and it certainly could be abused. However the harassment I want dealt with is the 1 guy after a clan or it's people. City raids is apart of darkfall and frankly I've never seen a real raid crew that hit the exact same city over and over. I have seen 1 guy do it. Personally I figure the reason they are alone is because they are sadists without friends personally. That's my personal pet peeve. One man shouldn't be wasting so many peoples time and able to have such a negative effect with such great escape odds. Maybe 2 or 3 players use scouting/ambush tactics and even those should be easily dispatched by much larger groups actively pushing. They should have ways to escape but this should end within 10 mins tops. We're all adults and free time is precious. These scenarios should end without wasting a ton of effort/time and if they can B-Hop and are not ultra terrible a much larger group should have decent odds. Hell in my worst case scenario occurred and we did remove movement spell effects on self these groups would still be doing this stuff and my suggestion wouldn't prevent it. I know that. Frankly I don't hate B-Hop like you all assume. However if fall damage was removed from B-Hop the defenders chasing wouldn't have to sacrifice health when accepting to chase. Skill would still remain if this is even skill which I find debatable. Why should fresh guys on the scene be forced to lose health just to accept a chase? Please don't try to tell me we don't have to chase... here I copy/pasted this particular relevant part since I doubt you'd read it otherwise. Hell you might not anyway. "Lets be clear not chasing is not on the table for a active clan or a new player oriented group of any kind. Losing gear over and over while being slowly whittled down repeatedly is a bad scenario with the wrong elements. It's horrible for moral, unbelievably frustrating and a complete waste of time for the defenders." If B-Hop remained limited via sprain we'd get my favorite scenario as long as we "Got the skills for B-Hop to keep up" people claim none of has in these harassment scenarios and we're back to mounts and people dodging, weaving, using the environment to escape. Despite what you claim as being the wrong way to chase a B-Hopper if you want to kill the prick you need to be on foot shooting something at some point. Those being chased would be forced to dodge by incoming fire, other people/blues/allies nearby could at least sprint on a mount directly at them while the first responders attempt to down the mount or kill the guy outright. Other people would B-Hop then mount up or just Mount Sprint and close the distances as much as possible. Then the others coming up from behind will get off the mount or stop B-Hopping when they are close as possible and finish the enemy off or his mount when close enough. IF mounts were limited which I have wanted for a long time we'd get these harassers 80-90% of the time unless they were pros and I've never seen a pro do this shit. Despite everyone claiming that nothing would change I don't believe you. I will argue this endlessly with logic and nobody has a real counter-argument that I've seen so far. Small groups could still succeed. Still launch each other etc even if we went with my heavy nerf version and only teamwork could use B-Hop. I will continue to argue for others to help solve the core problems with it so we can keep it as is. Otherwise I truly believe it should be changed. Solving the problem is my priority but if we can't it should be nerfed though I think our current nerf is good but it needs to be refined a little more. B-Hop is apart of darkfall as far as most vets are concerned. My stance on it is Defenders engaging an enemy should not be punished via health loss for taking up the challenge and pursuing. Leave the damage to the combat elements. This would prevent shady ambush tactics from being too easy which is another harassment issue this would solve. With No health loss from B-Hopping all the skillful elements are in place still. We can use it as it should be used but there are limits. No endless B-Hop and that should never be a thing IMO. I don't care how good you are it's fucking tedious for everyone else. Especially if they really want you dead. I've been told it's really simple to do and I agree. Which is why infinite hopping should never be a possibility regardless and BPG agrees it seems. I know hills/mountains/environment can prevent it but some places like Niff, areas of ruby/cairn are flat as humanly possible. Smaller areas in most other regions are also very flat. Including alot of Player cities. CD's on momentum spells have been needed since forever and I think most people can agree including me. No arguments there. You really need to fully read section 9 if you think I am just whining pointlessly. Battle spikes should remain as is for destroyers to escape WoF with B-Hop IMHO. With the sprain mechanic they can't go crazy. Though I think it should do more damage, a lot more. So you need to take a heavy hit to avoid being pummeled in a WoF. They are slow as heck to throw and they don't go far. This singular purpose is okay from my perspective and I'm not a destro so I have no vested interest in that mechanic. Come hither should not work from the front worth a damn if someone is actively blocking IMO. It should work from behind when blocking. Allies could still rescue people if they are on the ball and people stuck in WoF can't be pulled and smashed one at a time if they are actively blocking. You're suggestions for solving harassment don't solve anything IMO (CD's would have a great effect but no real solution as they'll still break off and get far and mount up. Frankly sprain is more effective though I think CD's should be added). Screwing world travel just increases the tedious aspects within darkfall from my perspective. For world travel to not be a issue in harassment you'd need to remove runebooks and the world portal network and then the game would be terrible. Please god no. 1 man wasting multiple peoples free time via harassment is why I stopped coming in to play darkfall myself. When they really try it's pure cancer and B-Hop is the key to their success. Even now with sprain I need to sacrifice my health to chase this prick and even have a chance of getting him. That's stupid from my perspective. Hes half health killing a new player/ally/clanmate/blue and I need to lose health just cause I decided to chase the fucker? Many things added up but that was the straw that broke the camels spine for me. It's ridiculous that it is even possible that you can as a single guy harass anyone and be very effective while doing it against large groups actively responding every time it occurs. We can solve this issue somehow I am sure. Possibly so B-Hop could stay as is (Though I'd prefer no health loss on B-Hop so damage is left to the combat elements we all love) OR so it was limited to teamwork in the worst case scenario. I think I am understanding you. I think you are still not understanding me. Maybe you do but I'm doubting it. War is awesome IMO. Sure it can become pretty nasty but I would still enjoy the fights even on the losing side. If we can figure a way to stop wasting so much of my time I'll play again. Until we solve harassment issues with B-Hop or at least seriously address them I have no interest in the current state of this game. Though the sprain mechanic is a great start. Admitting the problem exists is the first step on properly addressing the issue. --- Post updated --- Now that we have the sprain mechanic. Come hither should add a debuff to reduce it's effectiveness on a person each time it is used on them for a short time. Say 2 min debuff? This would be useful for 2 scenarios First so people could not use come hither on each other over and over and bunny hopping each time while purposely avoiding the sprain mechanic to endlessly launch themselves forward. Though I think the proper teamwork would sort of earn it I am against any endless hopping/momentum system abuse. If you guys decide to make it so actively blocking prevents come hither from working from the front (I really want to see this happen pretty please). This could help in sieges if you guys ever make it so blocking prevents come hither from working effectively.
Are you for real? You do realize this alone completely discredits everything you ever say? You clearly don't even play the game, and shouldn't even begin to start talking about balancing. Next thing you know you're going to start complaining about the grind. Give me a break.
Now that we have the sprain mechanic. Come hither should add a debuff to reduce it's effectiveness on a person each time it is used on them for a short time. Say 2 min debuff? This would be useful for 2 scenarios First so people could not use come hither on each other over and over and bunny hopping each time while purposely avoiding the sprain mechanic to endlessly launch themselves forward. Though I think the proper teamwork would sort of earn it I am against any endless hopping/momentum system abuse. If you guys decide to make it so actively blocking prevents come hither from working from the front (I really want to see this happen pretty please). This could help in sieges if you guys ever make it so blocking prevents come hither working. Oh a guy who isn't actively playing and admits it doesn't know all the mechanic changes that have been introduced? Oh noes whatever shall I do? Do you really think this discredits my entire argument? Good try with more dismissive insults champ. Good try. Pathetic in my eyes but whatever. Also because I didn't know the adjustment to that (which is great btw if that is in game I didn't realize good job BPG) This still doesn't solve anything related to this thread and this mechanic and it's flaws has existed since forever. You think because I don't know some change to one mechanic when I freely admit I don't play this fucking game in it's shitty state and FRANKLY THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME. This fucking game has boiled down to a one hole whack-a-mole looking for a clear path and praying you don't get hit and you cry and call it skill. I'm trying not to be toxic but you people are relentlessly dismissive and insulting no matter what you do. Do you hear that music? It's our song man.
This has been a thing for like a year. Do you even know how different this game is compared to DFO? Yet you try and rehash old DFO arguments?
Other than this B-Hop mechanic change incoming has THIS THREADS ISSUE CHANGED AT ALL? Hmmm? Even then if you read the sections you'd realize what the hell I am even talking about cause I seriously doubt you have. PS: A year? I'd be aware of it if it was around for a year... that or I missed it in the many patches BPG did and never noticed it myself. Personally was almost muscle memory to avoid hills/ledges because of come hither in larger battles. Though the other month I came on for a siege. We did exactly that. WoFs on a hilltop and pulled them down one at a time and destroyed them to win the siege. So I figured the issue still existed but meh.
Yea it does change. Everyone is sitting here like: Wtf, this isn't even an issue, yet you try and bring it up like this is happening on reg to you, yet you don't even play. Then when you get called out for just being bad, you try and defend yourself as if theres no way thats the issue, the issue is with bunnyhopping, not that I just suck at the game. The main problem with bunnyhopping is the advantage it gives to running away, not that running away is possible. As I stated before, your issue can be fixed simply by adding in a High Sec type area to the game where noobs can hang out and not have to worry about being harassed by pro bunnyhoppers all day. Seriously dude, if you're going to shill, at least know what you're talking about.
Lengthening cooldown and removing fall damage sounds ok until you wanna water hop faster. But it's a better idea than a Sprain status lol. I mean they're removing skinning knives, why not fall dmg
Harassment is an issue and this mechanic that enables it is too easy. Always will be and the less of it overall the better for the game. Making so B-Hop was a teamwork mechanic instead of catering to every solo shitstain this game wouldn't have so much frustration. No it's not happening regularly anymore cause most of the people that were dealing with it are fucking gone. You think the veterans or people who learned the game and still play all by themselves are great examples of how this is a non-issue? Smoking cocaine man. Try snorting it....seriously. If you read sections 8, 9 & 10 you might have a better understanding of this. But no instead it's "You don't play so you can't possibly understand the subtle intricacies of this anymore" when the fucking mechanic has never changed and even now it's just limited and still punishes defenders accepting the chase. IF YOU WERE NOT SO BLINDLY INSULTING YOU'D REALIZE THIS IS A ISSUE WHEN THE SERVER IS ACTIVE. I DON'T GIVE ONE FUCK IT NO LONGER OCCURS IN YOUR PRIVATE LAN PARTY. Okay? You don't see my side of the argument and refuse to accept any reality and I see your side and frankly it's hilarious. Now that griefers/harassers probably play other games cause only the decent vets who don't focus on new players are left and the newbs and many vets were gone before the griefers/hassers moved on and now almost everyone moved on it's presumably not an issue cause it's not happening. Fucking hilarious and so utterly sad.
Just because you say something doesn't make it fact bud. Again: IF THERE WAS A HIGH SEC AREA. NOOBS WOULDN'T GET CRUSHED BY VETS, AND COULD ACTUALLY LEARN THE GAME AND REALIZE HOW IMPORTANT A MECHANIC LIKE BUNNYHOPPING IS. YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT WITH BUNNYHOPPING, IT'S NOT EVEN WITH HARASSERS. YOUR PROBLEM IS NOOBS VS VETS.
Won't stop this shit happening on sub continents or anywhere but this hardlock safe area you want so badly. Half solutions are not solutions in my opinion. They may effect the problems but they do not fix them. Much like your build divirsity comments regarding this. Helpful but not totally effective. My opinion vs you boys. I know I'm alone and frankly I'll take you all on. You want this game to cater to solo players. You want this game to keep dredging the bottom of any popularity poll. I want this game to succeed and I will argue anything I think needs improvement. THIS IS THE ONE TOPIC I WILL NOT COMPROMISE ON. If you fucking read the post you'd realize why I'm not bitching about B-Hop itself. Holy fuck read sections 8, 9 and 10 or the ones you haven't read. Which I highly doubt you read any. IF YOU DID YOU'D KNOW I WANT B-HOP TO STAY AS IS WITHOUT FALL DAMAGE. We just need to brainstorm and you pricks can't get beyond insults.
LOLOLOLOL. YES IT WILL STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING ON SUB CONTIENTS. BECAUSE ANYONE LIVING IN SUB CONTIENTS, WON'T THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
back to dismissive statements. I guess claiming I'm a ND fanboy is the best boogyman approach. "Hes trying to sabotage the game boys" too bad the devs know thats utter horseshit. Nice try but still pathetic.
I'm talking about if the safe zones existed as you described you trolling shit. People would be forced out of the safe zones for pvp and harassment tactics will still occur.
LOLOLOLOL. NO ONE HAS THE ISSUES YOU DESCRIBE EXCEPT FOR NOOBS. THE IDEA BEHIND SAFE AREA IS NOOBS CAN GROW AND LEARN THE GAME (LEARN HOW TO BUNNYHOP) BEFORE GETTING DESTROYED BY PEOPLE WHO ALREADY MASTERED IT AND QUITTING IN FRUSTURATION. THEN THEY WON'T COME TO FORUMS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT BEING BAD.
So that's a yes? K unless you got a real point ignoring you. So much for thinking you might actually have some real valid points rattling through your head but I can keep dreaming I guess.
