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Why B-Hop Needs A Different Approach

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Avenging Martyr, Jan 13, 2018.

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  1. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Go through and look at all of our suggestions as well. The only one that I can say garnered some ideas that made it into the game from, was my idea of bulletin boards - which I personally haven't seen how they've turned out, but I hope they're good, it's hard to mess up - and my blatant abuse of debuffs and posts saying they need to be nerfed in alpha.
     
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  2. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    There are issues that need dealt with indeed. I agree on those three surely. I can agree with you on some things apparantly.

    However we need people to survive.

    Safe zones will help when they are brand new but if they're just going to be fed a shit sandwich when they walk outside that zone they are going to leave just like they leave now.

    You might like endless chasing. Most of the adults I know don't got the time to waste on such pointless frustration.

    You may enjoy a 1 button tapping rhythm escape mechanic. The people who chase the harassers don't.

    You claim learning to aim or getting good at the game is the solution. Despite knowing vets way better than me that are just as fed up with the harassment b.s. as me.

    You can insult me all you want. Use all the dismissive arguments you want. I don't believe you'll fool BPG.

    Believe it or not alot of those guys played the game ALOT. They know all about this shit. They got GM tickets, they've got the threads, the complaints etc.

    Please try to actually think of something or stop posting. I'm sick of it frankly. If you don't have anything of substance I'll ask the mods to remove your posts. This thread is to try to think of a solution to the harassment issues so we don't need to remove B-Hop for solo players.

    I want that. You people are not helping this one way or another. The whole server is arguing with me. At least whats left of it.
     
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  3. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Welp, no one can say I didn't try.
     
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  4. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    You want to go through all my old posts?

    I highly doubt it so what makes you think I'm going to waste my time doing that?

    My god if we can't solve the harassment issues I see this game dying and personally that makes me pretty sad.

    BPG won't be receiving any more money from me personally if they can't deal with it properly.

    I've got 2 accounts subbed and have since the start. I had faith but it's fading as time goes by.

    I won't support a solo oriented MMO.

    I'll go play Witcher 3 on death march again or heavily mod fallout 4 into something crazy and dangerous. Maybe buy a new game or play whatever I feel like. There's way better solo games out there and frankly why am I paying for this game?

    You people might enjoy a dead server but I want this game to expand. If large clans can't play/function and enjoy this game then this game will die. You'll never get enough "Elites" Aka "Good Players" to fill this game. Certainly not enough that will put up with the frustration.

    Bulletin Boards are pretty nice.

    Debuffs do need a nerf in PvP IMO.

    People seem to fail to realize we can't cater to solo players and larger groups in a open world pvp MMO.

    We can try to balance it abit but if we cannot we need to choose. I want us to figure out some more balance but no one else is interested.

    Frankly if I had to choose I'd take larger groups any day. The events become fun, the chaos is real.

    If some anti-social elements freaked out and left I wouldn't cry. It's a MMO.
    --- Post updated ---
    Same thing I will be saying when the game dies if we continue to focus on solo players in a MMO.

    I want to solve the issues and maybe balance some things. If we can't. Hard decisions need to be made.
     
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  5. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    Sorry dude but 1+1 is 2 not 3.
     
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  6. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    Trolololol. Any mod want to delete this post and grims?
     
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  7. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    It's not a troll, it's an analogy of the logic you're trying to use.
     
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  8. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    You mean my position that people should be able to enjoy the game without the people fucking with them having a easy escape that takes almost no real player skill.

    A "Skill" so unbelievably tedious vets commonly stop chasing not because they can't but simply because of the waste of time.

    Despite losing people/gear/gold/effort/time over and over through rinse repeat attacks whose succes solely relies on B-Hop to succeed vs a larger active clan?

    A broken mechanic that enables harassment that greatly affects any groups moral and generally negatively affects any group targeted.

    You guys who want these systems to stay as is so these anti-social harassers who run as soon as danger even gets within a km of them can forever rinse repeat this B.S.

    I know it doesn't happen anymore. Once newbs and vets who protected them left the griefers left too. Probably preparing for new dawn like lots of our former players here in RoA.

    You mean that logic?
     
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  9. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    The absence of it, while trying to blame something else that you think will magically fix all those "issues" you claim exist while consistently proving to anyone who's played roa that you don't know what you're talking about.
     
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  10. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    Absence of it. LOL

    You mean like the GM tickets, the forum threads, the massive amount of complaints that have been coming in since this broken mechanic went meta?

    The funniest part of your statement is anyone who has actively tried to protect newer players knows all about what I'm saying.

    Any active clan that wasn't just veterans or trying to be "The best players" in this game as if that really mattered.

    If I was full of shit this thread would have been locked on Day 2. Sadly you're so blind to the issue that you dismiss anything and everything.

    That's fine I get it.

    You got no experience with it. Your imagination seemed pretty limited.

    You love the mechanic so you use whatever insult, dismissive statement or "Analogy" makes you feel like a winner.

    Thankfully BPG isn't made of preteens. So I doubt your tactics will work. I guess for you that is a good try.
     
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  11. quietnoobz

    quietnoobz Chosen of Khamset

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    how can people waste so much time keyboard warrior typing on a vain forum text battle?? it's just beyond me. the idiocy when two people can just agree to disagree and move on with their forum browsing but they just don't. opinions vary, and this thread became toxic sludge when i saw the walls of text by two people lol. #closed.
     
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  12. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    Sadly, the people in charge of bpg don't have a good track record of making good choices and end up a lot of the time listening to idiots who won't ever play roa in an effort to appease them. If they completely removed bhop, you wouldn't play. You would come to the forums claiming fire while ignoring the bucket of water at your feet like you're doing now.
     
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  13. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    I wish it would be moderated. Frankly the trolling is tedious indeed.

    I want to talk about a potential solution to new player/clan harassment.

    This is my goal and I'd love a discussion about it if you would read sections 8 & 10 on the main page of this thread I'd love a real discussion.

    Grimtide and pals can't get beyond "Git Gud" or saying not actively playing bring about severe alzheimer's
     
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  14. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    Dementia*

    And possibly a good old case of darkfall amnesia.
     
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  15. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    I know they don't.

    Hence why I am trying to convince them to stop allowing this tedious idiotic broken b.s from continuing ;)

    Most of you all wanted core mechanics to stay the same. I've wanted changes since the beginning.

    If they removed B-Hop I'd be in that game right now instead of wasting time on you. Why do you post? Everyone left on this server pretty much agrees with you.

    Most don't read a damn thing or bother trying to understand what I'm talking about but that's just another day of forumfall.
    --- Post updated ---
    Alzheimer's is dementia essentially. The name of the disease or the symptom. Thanks for being a pedant.

    I honestly didn't think you could spell those words. Good for you.

    PS: Done for tonight. Try to resist the urge to troll. I know it may be hard.

    If someone has a real thought on preventing new player/clan harassment I'd love to hear it.
     
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  16. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    How would bunnyhopping being removed put you in a mood that makes you want to play? Whether or not its there is so inconsequential to the core issues of Darkfall. If it's in, then it's providing of of the core features that defines "Darkfall". If it is out, it's simply a "removed feature". It ultimately drastically nerfs predatory PvP opportunity and also nerfs the survival of the "prey". Darkfall is a game on a fine line between total piece of shit and transcendent game design.

    Neutering what Darkfall [is] would be a real shame.
     
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  17. Lele

    Lele Goblin Scout

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    hello i am newbie because i started two months ago and never played darkfall before.
    i guess the current combat mechanics like bunnyhopping is unique and really fun to train and master, no need lots of correction. Just using it endlessy by battlespikes seem broken, could been removed.

    Maybe really the game need a GUI improvement, why i had to bind all weapon types in hotbar? pls just put 5 archetipes : Melee 1h\2h, Staff, Bow and Shield. Then let people bind each one weapon with single spell like NewDawn has did already.

    The last but not the least, game sometimes feels like a scripts and macroes war, pls don't let people keep using anymore third part program and invest best resources in anticheat software.

    These are just a Noobs opinions.
     
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  18. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Don't bother.

    I knew you would come in here, and I warn you, there be no logic or reason here. Here be MADmen /shiver /teethchatter

    Save yourself!
    --- Post updated ---
    Hey, thanks a lot for posting.

    A lot of people agree the constant LBspike hops are definietly overpowered and were the source of many discussion in alpha/beta. Unfortunately they still remain.
    My suggestion to you and everybody is to start carrying them, and start using and abusing them, until people realize how broken the utility they provide is.

    Your suggestion for weapon binds is also something that I personally forsaw as an issue, and brought up and many agreed it was a hassle/tedious to have to bind all that. I strongly recommend that you provide a thread highlighting your issues in the feedback section.

    As for scripts/macros, this is Darkfall myth that turned into meme. No one is scripting in anything that has a major impact on combat. Everything that required scripts from DF1 has been built into the game, and aimbot/pixel detect is very ineffective in this game due to 2 things: No spell is hitscan, meaning everything can be dodged, and ping/hitboxes in Darkfall are wonky, so half the time an aimbot wouldnt even be aiming at the target.

    Again thanks for your input :)
     
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  19. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    First off thanks for not just dismissively insulting me. That's a breath of fresh air and I appreciate it.

    For me it would be knowing there was less tedious chasing and less wasting of time for pointless frustration. Free time is precious and I don't play this game just to drown myself in frustration.

    Dying in a real fight isn't frustrating to me. Not as a long time gamer. I think about what I did and they did. What should I have capitalized on. What mistakes I made. What I could do better etc etc I try to better myself through those failures and do better next time. Even losing I can still enjoy the fights. Real fights that is.

    Once upon a time people messing with allies/newbs etc are or at least were my solo PvP targets. Really that's the only real solo PvP I get as a forever Blue style player. I'm the bambi hero in arma dayz.

    Otherwise all I got are duels for good one on one fights. Since I don't jump people farming etc etc

    When B-Hop is in the game chasing these people outside a real fight is generally pointless, tedious and frustrating to me. This is not fun. It gets worse when people are losing everything they spent X hours farming. The gear they had and knowing the guy would have died without such an easy escape.

    I want to find a balance. Anyone who has played enough games knows MMO style games especially are all about balancing various aspects properly.

    B-Hop was always broken IMO.



    I wouldn't have started playing Darkfall if I was afraid of death like some claim. Frankly I'll probably die alot more often especially when farming if solo B-Hop was removed. I would like to keep it but it does need limitations and tweaking regardless.


    I can B-Hop despite some peoples insults. Same with Water Launching. Most people successfully escape with them not because of their ability or player skill from my perspective. Simply because the chase is so tedious people break off. That churns my stomach personally.

    At least dodging with mounts (water mounts should be a thing) and actively firing at a dodging opponent are interactive and entertaining when I compare that to this endless bouncing.

    While this mechanic is wonderful when used properly it enables some of the worst elements of this game to survive when frankly they should not be able to. It allows them to mess with people they shouldn't be able to escape from.

    While that's great for people to survive real fights or sieges etc and I realize it's importance in survivability. The negatives still outweigh those positives from my perspective. Which is why I want to solve the harassment issues from solo players.

    These no life sadists who are so toxic they enjoy others misery.



    What I truly dislike is such gigantic wastes of time/resources and being forced into chasing which weakens us so badly and if we are not ambushed then it's a measure of who messes up.

    Frankly the types that do that are really good B-Hoppers since they do it all the time endlessly.

    So them making a mistake is unlikely and at best we can keep up. We will try to kill them if we can before they get out of range but the odds are low unless we are perfectly aligned.

    Which is rare for a responding guy to get that close and be that aligned. Usually we turn around because it's a giant waste of time and utterly tedious.

    Personally I will never consider hopping around using 1 button which isn't entertaining for me in any way shape or form a type of "skill". Which is why I started with arguing to remove it entirely. I have been convinced I was wrong as it can be used in various situations to great affect.

    However it does need limiting and that is being addressed. I just wish we could figure out how to solve the harassment stuff. If we could then I'd be more than happy to have B-Hop stay with some tweaks.

    If you read this far I'd love to hear your thoughts on what I want B-Hop to be like if we can keep it entirely.


    So we have the sprain mechanic. I want it to active after so many jumps/hops (Example sprain activates if you jump more than 12 times in a 4 minutes). So there is a limit because infinite hop is unbelievably tedious and it really shouldn't exist from my perspective.

    All stat loss should be removed entirely from fall damage. This way damage is limited to the combat aspects we all love. You get killed by the player. Not because the game weakened you to a critical level because you decided to chase.

    This prevents shady ambush scenarios and allows defenders/chasers the ability to pursue an enemy without greatly weakening themselves.

    All the skill elements are kept, we can re-position in combat/sieges. Retreat or Advance a decent distance.

    If others are just as "Skilled" they can close the distance and we are back to the scenario I want.

    Actively shooting, actively dodging with less tedious b.s

    I don't care if I die more often without B-Hop when I am solo.

    I know the server is pretty dead. Sieges and Sea Towers my personal favorites are lame. I'll be lucky to get duels.

    What I hope from this is when the free to play activates. When new people start coming in they don't just get fucked with endlessly. That people like myself will be able to help and defend them. With B-Hop as it was responding to anything outside of view was pointless. Even within sight doesn't guarantee anything.

    Even if safe zones protected them in the starter areas they will need help outside of those areas until they learn the meta well enough to survive. Which is not a quick process even if the grind is easy. If they cannot hop forever I am confident these toxic people can be dealt with.

    I would play today without B-Hop to practice, remove the rust and build my character more. Without so much frustration and tedious b.s. I'd see hope for the future of this game and I wouldn't mind doing Solo PvE etc for now and building my bank/character up more while waiting for more content/changes and the population to grow.

    At least that's my view on why I would.

    Man I separated that last part because it's so true.

    "Darkfall is a game on a fine line between total piece of shit and transcendent game design.

    Neutering what Darkfall [is] would be a real shame."

    It needs to adapt and evolve and doing it right is going to be hard. BPG will never please everyone.

    I want b-Hop to stay which is why I want us to brainstorm solving new player/clan harassment without removing it.

    We already thought of a way to prevent asset damage b.s. in this thread. That alone made this worth it IMO. I just want to see more.

    Hey,

    Glad to see we got some new people still playing.

    I enjoy B-Hop too man. When used right it is great.

    I just want to solve some harassment issues. I think we can do it without removing B-Hop if we as a community really tried to think about it.

    Personally I want battle spike hopping to remain so destroyers can get out of WoF effectively but it should cause a good chunk of damage IMO. I'm talking 70ish damage which is a good exchange to get out of being pummeled to death. It would be worth while to use to get out of WoF. With a damage increase I doubt people would use them like they do now.

    I won't argue about other improvements to many areas in darkfall. I agree on most things. Ease of use, more convenience, QoL, content, build diversity, changes to certain spells, revamping buffs. Nerfing debuffs in PvP. The list is very long and I won't keep going.

    Macros are not nearly as bad as the past. If there is a script/marco out there people do use you should make a thread about it and discuss it so BPG can decide if it is a good addition. If so they would add it into the game somehow I believe.

    That or if it's abused badly or straight up cheating then yes it needs to be addressed and solved.

    Thanks for stopping by and I hope you continue to enjoy the game ;)

    Sorry for the thread itself. I know it's ridiculous but this is a very heated subject in this community.

    I am sure you still don't understand me. That's fine. At least your not just dismissively insulting this guy. Everyone knows your opinion and frankly 90+ % agree on the baseline. Which amuses me since most are obviously missing my reasoning or what I want from this thread.

    I highly doubt BPG would ever remove solo B-Hop but I will argue for it in an attempt to get people thinking about solving harassment issues.

    Even some offhand comment might spark a thought in someone for a real solution. Until then I will argue with anyone/everyone as I believe this needs to be addressed properly.

    Really the sprain mechanic properly adjusted is enough for me to be happy. I'm pushing for more because I firmly believe the game will be better off without as much frustration being possible. I want something better than extremely low odds of effectively preventing it.

    Best arguments I've heard so far involve wasting more peoples time and potentially lots of gold. Or just straight up wasting a groups playtime for long periods of time to even try to solve it.

    Wasting even more time almost exponentially is not a solution IMO especially when it would be boring and tedious. If people can't have fun, they won't play. Free time is more and more precious as we age and darkfall isn't aimed at the young.

    I just want to brainstorm and fix the harassment issues not just for myself but the game overall. If we can do that then B-Hop can stay and I'll stop arguing this topic. Believe it or not this forumfalling is not the highlight of my day.

    You've offered some ideas that would help. Not effective enough for me to be happy with them. Most of them would take alot of time and effort to get in game and the same problems would exist and harassers etc would work around them. So I argue with ya for good reasons from my perspective.
     
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    #119 Avenging Martyr, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  20. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    You've wasted more time posting about your views than all the time you spent chasing anyone, exponentially more.
     
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