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Will relics change anything?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ryco Stormeye, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. Ryco Stormeye

    Ryco Stormeye Crypt Guard

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    I know this community hates combat changes but the current game has quite a few things that restrict choice based on PvP viability. When relics get added will the bonues be enough to make current under used weapons and spells be PvP viable?

    Examples of things not being used PvP due to PvP viability

    One handed weapons and shields as primary melee damage type not just blocking (will relics change range?)
    R50 Spells in Earth, Air, Water
    R75 AoEs apart from Toxic and Thunderstorm
    R90/R100 Nukes apart from Blizard and Exploding charge

    Also why would you want a relic that boosts your damage on say Earth Magic when the R50 and R90 does not knockup and the R90 damage is already lower then Virtous Wrath?

    I personally think the solution is fixing the base abilitys and weapons in game to be seen as decent choices in PvP before adding relics but that just my view point.
     
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  2. Methodico

    Methodico Infernal

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    We need choices, the freedom we now have is fake.
     
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  3. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Loremaster
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    I can answer some of that. If you had relics with earth magic magnitude, earth magic casting speed, and disintegrate damage, and corrosive blast damage, etc, you'd be able to put out some nice damage. Maybe you'd prefer fire or air but what if you get a few legendary earth magic relics? Same deal for polearms or water magic, it all depends on what you can find. As for one-handed weapons, we'll have to see how viable they will be with strong relics but you might be able to get something working.
     
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  4. Conqueror

    Conqueror Goblin Warrior

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    Relics are going to be non-tradeable power spikes.

    This is whats going to happen:

    Players will get ideas/theorycrafting as to their ideal setup. They will then spend countless hours trying to get a perfectly rolled relic. Player 2 will get their perfectly rolled relic randomly and end up trashing it because it's not trade-able, and they don't care about that theory-craft. Everyone will be questioning this design choice.

    @Billy Lee

    What are you going to do when a perfectly rolled relic drops and is sold on the corpse of the mob in general chats? Ban people for exploiting?

    You seriously need to consider a bind-on-equip function for these.
    --- Post updated ---
    Long suggested by the player-base to work on "specializations" similar to those of Destroyer/Mage-killer which would provide the customization aspect this design choice seeks to employ. Not only that, but it would be easier to balance a specialization than a million randomly rolled items.

    The problem is BPG is trying to knock out 2 birds with 1 stone: More specialization in combat, and more reason to farm. Relics just makes your gameplay needlessly convoluted. Chances are it will backfire.
     
  5. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Loremaster
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    The original plan was to make relics tradable. We will likely move away from that in favor of prolonging the hunt on average and offer more difficult decisions, maybe you didn't want a set of water and greataxe relics initially but you end up using them because you found great ones and it turns out that you're pretty powerful. You also may want to collect more relics to keep your options open and be able to change builds. All that said, this is a fairly deep topic and both sides have pros and cons. There will also likely be a recyling options, such as crafting five unwanted relics into a new randomly rolled relic. Trading is fun but non-tradable relics should create a larger amount of people out in the world.
     
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    #5 Billy Lee, Sep 29, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2020
  6. Conqueror

    Conqueror Goblin Warrior

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    Tradeable relics also give something for people to spend the ridiculous amounts of wealth on. "Perfect rolled sword/fire relic for sale: 3 mil"

    Shit like that ^ is what keeps a game going. Forcing people to RNG their relic isn't engaging gameplay, and will lead to frustration more than anything. The same people you think would just sit around and buy a good relic are the same people that CBA to farm in the first place. Not only does this screw over people who like farming and finding that treasure to sell and get rich, but it also screws over people who don't like to farm. The game doesn't get more enticing by making people do things they don't want to do.

    Shooting yourselves in the foot with this, oh well.
     
    #6 Conqueror, Sep 29, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  7. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Loremaster
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    Nothing is final yet, feel free to discuss. It's easy to identify pros and cons for either iteration, definitely a debatable topic imo.
     
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  8. Conqueror

    Conqueror Goblin Warrior

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    There isn't much room for debate honestly, at the end of the day you guys will do what you want. For instance:

    The whole idea of relics is flawed. It's a cheap idea to bring customization options, and entice farming in one design approach. The problem with this, is customization options affect combat, and create balancing problems. Additionally, adding them to farming gives something else to clog up peoples banks, another thing to put on the paper-doll, and another thing to try and sell... but wait, maybe you can't sell them? Now your character's customization option is reliant on RNG. Now if you want that customization option, you need to go out and farm, roll the dice on the relic you want.

    This is even more exacerbated by the fact that customization options already exist in game. Why even branch out customization options into item choice when the the Destroyer/Mage Killer button is already easily clicked? Are those customization options going to be scraped? Expanded upon? If they are expanded upon how will relic's compound those customizations? What happens if a "fire mage" customization option, similar to destroyer is added to the game, will my relic become overpowered? Will nerfs happen? But what about the people that spent countless hours farming to find their perfectly rolled relic? What if the relics were sellable? Did someone waste millions on a relic for it to be scraped? What happens when their relic is deemed "overpowered?"


    Now how do you feel after reading that? Probably something along the lines of: "Well we aren't scrapping relics, we worked on them this entire time, don't be silly."

    Things like Relics... rare ore nuggets? Map pieces? Rune books? Rune Glyphs!?!?!? They convolute the game unnecessarily and add more steps to things we have already been doing for quite literally, years. At the end of the day, you don't want to hear any of this though.
     
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  9. The Red King

    The Red King Obsidian Golem
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    The only way Relics turn out to be amazing in my opinion is to fix the transmutes and make spells different from each other and make the shit stack. This way you will see fire builds using fire swords and fire transmute staves, but with all spells basically the same, all its going to do is change which spells you cycle.
     
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  10. SuB ZeRo

    SuB ZeRo Black Knight
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    Who is conquered and why is he talking trash on rare ore nuggets and map fragments? Those two changes alone have made me and my 30 clan mates reinstall the game.
     
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  11. Benevolence

    Benevolence Akathar
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    Whats actually going to happen is people will have to grind their asses off to get the strongest kinds of relic for the spells that are actually meta. nobody is going to use disintegrate even with a couple points of extra damage because it has no cc. those that dont have strong relics will get mad that they are locked out of a powerspike if they don't invest tonnes of time into farming. its just another mechanic that rewards no-lifers and widens the power gap.

    ridiculous concept all around, as if this game needed more power creep instead of fundamental bugfixes

    BPG dont have the resources or the team expertise to actually develop an MMO. just fix the game, and if you manage to get the money... hire developers. we all know its a player-run shard basically so just fix the bugs, crashes and broken mechanics. these new systems are poorly thought out and just keep breaking the game more and more.
     
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  12. Jack_Bauer

    Jack_Bauer Air Elemental
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    I’m still waiting for toys and titles to actually do something...
     
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  13. GrimReapiN

    GrimReapiN Varangian Warthane
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    Billy, what a god damn trooper.

    He's fucking trying, gentlemen, and I love him for it.
     
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  14. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
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    No.

    It's putting more bad mechanics on top of nonsensical broken mechanics on top of poorly thought out game balance that was never properly fixed.

    My advice is to abandon Relics as a concept now and focus on rebalancing core mechanics and adding content and features that doesn't break other things.
    --- Post updated ---
    Wait are you talking about Titles or Titles?
     
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  15. Sameog

    Sameog Gravelord
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    Relics? meh...
    Arena on the other hand...
     
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  16. Brando Pando

    Brando Pando Crypt Guard
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    I think the game will likely be played the same way. I don’t see people running around pvping with 1 handers or casting spells that were previously useless because they can now add 10% damage to a spell/school. Most likely it will be the same shit but now that destro on your back is gonna have +20% melee damage and kill you even faster.

    If this relic stuff really does turn the game on its head then it will be another problem altogether. With a low population and even lower dev resources, im not sure how this stuff is gonna get balanced out.
    --- Post updated ---