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World Map Size

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by zander, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. zander

    zander Chosen of Khamset
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    The case for shrinking the map
    How ever many months ago BPG revealed that they actually had a developer working on a mockup of some sort of DF-Arena. Personally i feel this is a bad idea. Darkfall was always meant to be open-world PVP and as most know duels get boring after a while (which is what an arena would be).

    The focus around VCPs has already made most PVP encounters like an arena, the only remaining "organic" pvp comes from sieges which don't really happen anymore either.

    SO, in light of the fact that BPG has finally been willing to consider an arena, will they finally consider shrinking the map?

    The map as is was designed for 10k+ players. Its way too big for organic PVP to ever occur, especially with our current population. Think how many players just log off because they don't enjoy VCP pvp and thats the only form of readily available content in-game (besides the PVE grind with near 0 risk of PVP as well).

    How many holdings also sit empty, and even more just left unclaimed entirely.

    The map should be no larger than two of the sub-continents combined. (AND can be enlarged if population grows to support it)

    Make the lawful zone around the one capital (sang) with all low-tier mobs there (anything easy-moderate difficulty). Outside there make it lawless full-loot zones, this is also where all player holdings/villages will exist (except maybe a few lawful villages for players to compete over with lower stakes).

    New players can learn the ropes in lawful zones on the easier mobs, while still not allowing veteran players to hide from PVP while farming up gold sufficient for high-end gear efficiently.

    It will also make the game feel more alive for new players and veterans with everyone crammed in together. More organic Pvp in the world, less need for insta-ports everywhere.
     
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  2. Darthlizard

    Darthlizard Goblin Warlord
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    also wipe banks (you can keep all the stuff u bought in the cash shop)

    uwu
     
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  3. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    Yeah u would need a bank wipe for this to even work tbh
     
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  4. Itwas Luck

    Itwas Luck Gravelord

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    agreed. The fact that it wasn't shrunk to begin with was some serious optimism.
     
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  5. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Undead Dwarf
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    Yeah, because it worked out so well for unholy shit! And wipe speculation worked out so well for DFO!

    Stop asking for things that killed previous iterations of Darkfall.

    One of the strong suites of Darkfall is how amazing and expansive the world is. You want pvp, go to hotspots or villages.
     
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  6. Itwas Luck

    Itwas Luck Gravelord

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    if you want the ability to roam around without the chance of ever seeing another player go play a single player game?

    unholy wars, at least initially (didnt play past the first few months) had a shitload of issues.

    yeah, the wipe speculation is definitely what killed dfo. Had it not been for that, it'd probably still be around!
     
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  7. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Undead Dwarf
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    If you want a 5v5 arena game, go play a moba.

    I can strawman too!
     
  8. Itwas Luck

    Itwas Luck Gravelord

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    a smaller map =/ arena
     
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  9. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Undead Dwarf
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    And what will a smaller map achieve? More organic pvp? Doubt it, the amount of good mobs will stay the same. If you want to jump farmers, go to baradron/leen golem/dark dragons/erodach right now, no need for a smaller map.

    If you want to make the map so small that you can check all the spawns in 2 minutes, go play a moba, they have neutral camps that can be easily checked for farmers.

    And if you have 0 places for the bads to hide from the vets, and for the solos to hide from the zergs, the former will just quit or play less, and the pop will go down....And you will then be asking for more shrinkage!
     
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  10. zander

    zander Chosen of Khamset
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    Smaller Map:
    Less holdings, more competition for the few that remain. More sieges, fights between opposing cities as they are closer and populated. (Think Izkand/Teneland fights back in DFO).

    It would also reduce the need for insta-ports and so we can get back to people actually travelling around the map for PVP, leading to organic fights between roaming groups as well.

    100% agree.

    Thats why lawful zones need to be utilised more. One capital zone with all easy-moderate mobs in them so new players can farm and learn the game without being farmed themselves.

    Capital zone even should have combat blocked entirely as there will be people who camp goblins just to annoy new players. (System needs work to avoid abuse like DFUW safe-zones)

    No player wipe, only a bank wipe. Fully understand that wiping peoples crafting skills will piss of a ton of people. (combat is fairly easy to level now so a wipe there is meaningless anyhow).

    Banks need to be wiped though. The game is so skewed towards those who have played over the past year as the game was dead and farmed up massive banks.
     
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    #10 zander, Apr 25, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
  11. Itwas Luck

    Itwas Luck Gravelord

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    recently I checked the most commonly farmed mobs on all 4 islands during peak hours, 3 times. I found 1 person. I appreciate your advice though :)
     
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  12. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    A full wipe/ relaunch under a new expansion name (once the fundamental longterm economic and progression problems are addressed and full TC/ zones/ EoW content is finished) is the ONLY way to get a huge population increase with superior retention rates.

    A couple dozen people mad over losing their crafting skills are irrelevant by comparison

    Almost no one is going to give a fuck about whatever progress they lose, if the game relaunches and has a much higher, more sustainable population/ activity

    Half assing it would be worse than not wiping at all, we have ONE opportunity to do this and it must be done right.

    Fresh starts with improved initial experiences and sustainable long term mechanics are what bring in/ back thousands of players, keeping ANY amount of progress/ advantage will lose you 90% of those people.

    Not to mention if you want a high population with long term activity, the entire progression system needs to be redone and staggered via hard time based caps for crafting ranks and either hard or soft capped daily/ weekly character progression, without these you will lose a tremendous amount of players in the first 2 months.

    The general consensus is that RoA in it's current form is already long dead and or has no future, you will not suck those people (or me) back in with anything less

    No matter how bored I get or miss Darkfall, I'm not going back to roaming the entire map for 8 hours a day to get MAYBE 1 decent fight, or only being able to find fights in a 2 hour "primetime" window, always against the exact same people with the outcome predetermined 80% of the time.

    And I'm not putting time or effort into something that doesnt have enough people playing and likely won't have anyone playing mid- long term

    Without a relaunch and the correct changes, server shutdown is exponentially more likely than RoA ever getting/ sustaining a minimum viable population

    Doesn't matter how many good changes BPG put on top of a rotten foundation, not enough people will give RoA a second consideration without a full wipe/ relaunch, the historical MMO metrics ALL point to this.
     
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  13. zander

    zander Chosen of Khamset
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    you only need a character wipe if you want to base the game around character grinding though.

    The game made (was meant to) make a shift towards a gear grind. We only need a bank wipe to achieve this. The economy just needs to make the mats necessary for crafting infernal/q4 tier gearsets much more rare and also reduce gold drops overall.

    I don't think people want an intensive character grind. Revamping the map to be smaller can still be a relaunch with current characters. Everyone spawns in the capital city, no holdings yet capped, empty banks.

    That said I don't personally care if there was a character wipe, I just think it'd harm more than it would help.
     
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  14. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    Part of a gear grind involves resetting and changing crafting, you want to delay people from running around in high end bags as long as possible

    Best way to do that while still allowing late comers to catch up is through time gated progression caps and removing high rank mob dropped weapons completely, at least at the start

    Example first week of launch crafting is capped at rank 20

    Second week is capped to r30

    Fourth week r40

    8th week r50

    That gives you long term progression while avoiding early game no lifer power gaps and still allows people who join late to catch up at a reasonable pace because they won't be capped

    Do the same thing with character leveling, there are ways to prolong character maxing without making it crazy man hour intensive
     
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  15. Itwas Luck

    Itwas Luck Gravelord

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    yup, 100% this is what NEEDS to be done. during relaunch or before, pve needs to be fixed and bugs need to be fixed. Adding actual content should be the highest priority after bug and pve fixes.I don't think bpg will do it though.
     
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  16. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    I don't either, they're clearly either scared $ (would rather keep this low trickle than take any kind of risk to hit it big with a relaunch)

    OR just way too personally attached to their stacked banks/ characters

    Although if you WERE going to wipe/ relaunch an expansion, denying it until right beforehand is the best option... being retarded like AV and announcing it 6 months ahead of time only hurts everyone
     
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  17. zander

    zander Chosen of Khamset
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    Absolutely, but to justify a relaunch there'd need to be some major content added and changes to the game.

    Map size change would warrant it. I'd love a relaunch as thats usually the most fun times for any DFO iteration.

    I just think BPG is too nervous to do it, hence why i limited only to bank wipes which i think they would potentially do.
     
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